ethanol free fuel - who uses it

Discussion in 'Fuel Economy' started by TheStepChild, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    I have a 2014 Prius I just finished a test between E-10 and E-0. I ran 3 tanks of E-10 and got 54.65 mpg. Then I ran 3 tanks of E-0 premium(only ethanol free available) and got 55.97.
    So in this car I only got a bump of 2.4%. Previous tests on a 2012 Camry Hybrid and a 2008 Corolla yielded a much bigger jump, around 6 to 8 %.
    Since the E-0 is 20 cents or about 6 to 7 % higher in cost per gallon, I will not be using E-0 any more on the Prius and I stopped using it a few months ago on the Camry.
     
  2. What prices are others seeing on e0 vs regular gas now that reg gas has dropped


    Just swung thru the one station near me with e0. Regular unleaded - $1.99. E0 $4.19!:eek:
     
  3. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    When gas was close to $4/gal the difference at my favorite stations was $0.07 - $0.10. Now that the price has come down the upcharge for E0 has risen to $0.20. I filled up last night at the Pure station in Berryville, VA. E10 was $1.999, E0 was $2.199.

     
  4. Wth! Went to the in-laws and drove thru the station near them with e0. $4.49/gallon
    :eek: :eek:
    wth!
     
  5. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    I just swung by the only station(fuel jobber tank farm) that sells E-0. Regular is 1.699 and E-0 premium is 2.349, a 65 cent upcharge. It was 15 to 20 cents more when gas was 3.50.
    I'm not understanding this.

    PS: We just had a gas war in town for about 10 days with gas at 1.559 per gallon. I only needed 1 small fill-up but it was nice.
     
  6. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    E10 premium is $2.759 here. When you consider you're comparing E10 regular to E0 premium it really isn't that bad, in fact, I'd say the E0 premium is a bargain. I would love to find a station that sells E0 premium for my motorcycle.

     
  7. JonNC

    JonNC Driving Smarter Since 06/07/2011

    I'm on my 4th tank of Shell's E-0 87.
    It's currently running $0.26 over E-10 87.
    Last fill (today) was $2.339 per gallon.

    :)
     
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi James:

    That more than double the price, it it 100+ Octane racing gas? 87 - 91 E0 should not be $2.20 more per gallon. Just outrageous! UNless it is left over from July and August of 2008 of course. ;)

    Wayne
     
  9. I scoped out the airport too. $4.75/gallon for e0. Just plain nuts.

    As far as I remember all of them were low 90s octane
     
  10. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    BIG ASIDE
    But "for some reason"
    Both vehicles- 1998 2wd suburban 5.7
    and 2006 Prius
    are getting BETTER MPG the last 3-4 -5 months
    maybe 5 or even 10%
    Now if there was ZERO alcohol-there would be about 3% more energy in 100% gas vs 90/10 gas alcohol
    so no way should the MPG be better than 3% better
    but many folks report better than 3% better mpg with "pure gas gas"

    Isn't ethanol as expensive-maybe more-than gasoline now-at retail selling price of $2??

    Is it even FAINTLY possible we aren't getting 10% ethanol in 10% ethanol pumps??
    Charlie
    PS- notice NO political crazy "stuff"-despite no job-yet-6am
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2015
  11. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    That is something I've wondered myself... Although the energy difference is about 3%, I get between 8% and 12% higher mileage in my vehicles on E0.
     
  12. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    I'd say yes, at least faintly. E10 pumps do say "May contain up to 10% ... ," or other words to that effect, don't they?
     
  13. litesong

    litesong litesong

    +
    Further updates: The above paragraphs are history of pure-gas.org listings. Altho the EPA & "ethanol in gasoline industry" has tried to squash 100% gasoline(E0), pure-gas.org listings now are 9080+(has already jumped to 9105). Tho the EPA & "ethanol in gasoline industry" have promoted E85, E85 is seen for its worthlessness, as E85 sources languish three to four times FEWER than E0 sources.
    Here are the simple & obvious reasons why ethanol doesn't work efficiently in gasoline engines. Reasons so simple & obvious, people DON'T point out the details often:
    Ethanol engine engineers are good & designed & built high compression ratio (16:1) ethanol engines to efficiently burn 114 octane ethanol(E100) & spark advance is set to ignite the ethanol when properly compressed.
    Now, octane 87 gasoline engine engineers are also good & designed & built low 87 octane, low compression ratio (9:1 to 11:1) gasoline engines to efficiently burn octane 87 E0 & spark advance is set to ignite 87 octane E0 when properly compressed.
    Yes, it is simple & obvious that ethanol needs to be burned efficiently in an ethanol engine & used(not burned properly) in a gasoline engine, can NOT tap its btus of energy, as well as in an ethanol engine. Matter of fact, the two fuels are so different, that just adding 10% ethanol into a gasoline engine, reduces mpg by 8%, 7%, & 5%.
    Plus, here is another simple & obvious reason 10% ethanol blends used(not burned properly) in a gasoline engine, fail. 87 octane 100% gasoline(E0) has an average octane of 87 & the 87 octane gasoline engine, which is set to burn 87 octane gasoline molecules, burns average 87 octane gasoline molecules efficiently. However, the majority of ethanol AND gasoline molecules, IN EACH FUEL in 87 octane 10% ethanol blends....... do NOT average 87 octane! Of course, the ethanol molecules average 114 octane. ALSO, the gasoline molecules, since octane 114 ethanol has been added to gasoline, MUST AVERAGE, 84 octane, not 87 octane.
    Therefore, if 10% ethanol blend isn't burning properly, maybe even knocking, the 84 octane gasoline molecules are probably at fault, as much as the 114 octane ethanol.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  14. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Updates & additions:

    As of today, pure-gas.org lists 9175 E0 sources. Adding only another 9%, there will be 10,000. By late 2015/early 2016, such should be the case.
     
  15. Decent! not great, but definitely decent.
    coworker told me about a Pacific pride station right up the street from work that has E0. haven't used P.p. in at least 3 years so I called and reactivated my card.

    Price $3.10.
    $2.50 ish for normal E? Gas around here.
    I put 4 gallons in the volt. I was at about 45 miles gas range and occasionally got the low fuel ding on curves. Probably burn 2 gallons off tomorrow

    I'll add the station to pure-gas website
     
  16. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    I must have really lucked out. I pulled up to my usual station today and found huge "NON-ETHANOL" stickers next to the 91 octane nozzles, which have replaced 93 octane E10. My owner's manual recommends 91 octane, anyway, so I'll give it a whirl. It costs about a quarter a gallon more than the E10 93 did. At the very least it should make for an interesting experiment for a few tanks.
     
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Tim:

    That is good news. The pure gas site is so out of date you never know if the station listed is or is not until you show up.

    In any case, if you can find it, by all means use it of course. Now where can it be found in Southern California. Race gas at $5 to $12/gallon is not going to work. :(

    Wayne
     
  18. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    Wayne, the pure-gas site has the option to remove stations that no longer carry E0. In any event, when planning a trip the Pure-gas site does have station phone numbers. I try to call all potential fuel stops. Confirm operating hours and current fuel prices for E0. I also check to see what forms of payment are accepted. Some stations I've stopped at were cash only.

    Once I have this info I review the operating hours and check against my anticipated arrival time to make sure the station will be open when I get there. I then program my GPS with all of my fuel stops set as waypoints, and I stop and fuel up only at my designated stations.
     
  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    I have a wee bit of experience with this. Removal is for someone that has been by a particular station and some of these stations have not been updated since 2012/2013. Whites City, NM anyone? Salome, AZ was on the list for almost a year after they had dropped E0. This happens all over the country as experienced with the Shell Dual Fuel Charger drive in which I had to refuel the competitive brand tank approximately every ~ 225 miles while covering more than 25 states.

    The surprise was NE where there were 2 E0 pumps at new Caseys and Sinclair plus a Shell not listed on the E0 site.

    You just hope it works out is all.

    Wayne
     
  20. roothorick

    roothorick Active Member

    I've never actually seen 91 octane E10. Every station I've been to anywhere in WI has E10 87 and 89 but the 91 proudly proclaims "ethanol-free performance fuel".

    I've been picking up the 87 E10 anyway, as I think the problems of running 91 in an engine made for 87 would eat any gains I'd get from running E0. But pure-gas claims there's an ethanol-free station near me... hm, might have to have a look.
     

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