ethanol free fuel - who uses it

Discussion in 'Fuel Economy' started by TheStepChild, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Crippled old style ? Are you still singing the praises for that moonshine ? You're the only one here who likes ethanol , Herm.
     
  2. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Nah, the only one brave enough to say so :)
     
  3. CPLTECH

    CPLTECH Well-Known Member

    As stated previously in the forum, the ScanGauge “LTFT” gauge numbers have been noted by me & others to increase when ethanol content went up. The number decreased when product added. Instructions say to use 1 oz per 10 gal.

    Personally I have found the MotorKote product line a good one and should not be classed as “snake oil”. Owner-operators of semi’s swear by it. Just one of several personal examples: Over the past 30 yr I have personally cut 4+ cord of firewood per yr. Anyone know the wear a bar takes on a chainsaw? How many of you turn the bar over to use the other side to extend its life before forced to replace? Since using MK, the bar & chain stays in great condition. Of course, the chain still needs to be sharpened at regular intervals.

    My SIL uses MK to get an extra 2-3 mpg out of his little Pontiac G3. I still don’t understand the reluctance of this group who look for ways to get the ultimate mpg’s by asking what others do yet so many still diss it as “snake oil” despite my vocal experiences to the contrary.

    BTW, I have benefited from this forum when I pumped the tires up, got a SG2 to see what is going on internally, the emphasis of reducing mph, and so on. Please continue to pass on your experiences, just as I have done.

    MK does have a downside, as I have found. Due to the reduced friction, it takes longer for the engine to get up to temp & we all know how that can affect mpg. It also takes a little further down the street to get heat in the cold weather.
     
  4. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    I was just being snarky about MK.. ethanol oxygenates the fuel, so the O2 sensor richens the mixture to compensate.. the MK additive may be something that does the opposite, burns at a severe oxygen deficit such as oil or kerosene perhaps?.. try some Marvel Mystery Oil and see what it does.

    Regarding ethanol, I have been using it (off and on) since the Carter administration with no issues.. but I understand how it works.. I just like to like to harass you all :)
     
  5. CPLTECH

    CPLTECH Well-Known Member

    Here’s something I don’t quite understand: Been trying to use Exxon [Mobil} because the noticeable reduction of the “LTFT” numbers with this company. Noticed that today the minimum number was “3”. Put in 7 gal [first time in 10 days. Yes, it sits a lot] and it went down to a “-1”. Hurray! Whatever the additive they use, it somehow dissipates. How, in a closed fuel system? Wonder what chemical they lace the fuel with?
     
  6. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    It could be entirely possible that for whatever reason, that station received a tanker of fuel that had no ethanol in it.
     
  7. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    whatever is the cheapest cr*p they have on the bottom of the barrel at that day.. is this a corporate owned store or a franchise store?
     
  8. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Try using some Marvel Mystery Oil in the gasoline tank and see what the LTFT numbers do, mix it on the heavy range of what they recommend.
     
  9. pickler

    pickler Well-Known Member

    i used ethanol free 91 octane vs 87 E10 with no difference in economy. power felt a bit lousy under 3500rpm with ethanol free. I think car was running leaner slightly.
     
  10. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Picker, what car did you use?
     
  11. litesong

    litesong litesong

    ...... pure-gas.org , which promotes & lists sources dispensing 100%(ethanol-free) gasoline has escalated from less than 2000 listings many years ago, to 4800 listings less than two years ago, to 7700 in early February, 2014.

    Update:
    About the end of May 2014, they rose to 8000. Now 7 weeks later, listings jumped over 2% to 8175!!! Even fuel restrictive California has a few more stations selling 100% gasoline. Wisconsin, with 709 listings, comprise 8.7% of all U.S. & Canadian listings, altho only 13% of stations have 87 octane. Florida, with repeal of some 100% gasoline restrictions, has increased ~ 10% over the last few months to almost 500 stations, tho like Wisconsin, only ~ 14% have 87 octane. Oklahoma has almost 500 stations with 100% gasoline, closely priced to 10% ethanol blends & with a good selection of octanes.
     
  12. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    Just as I thought. No ethy-free fuel around here :(
     
  13. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    That's great that we E0 users have more choices! litesong's post inspired me to have another look at pre-gas.org and I see that there are two stations now that sell 87 octane E0 in my area--twice as many as a year ago!

    Edit: oops. on closer inspection the other station no longer sells E0 87. bummer.

    Anyway, after much careful measurement, my car can get up to 42mpg on E0 on the highway at about 65mph. On E10, I can get up to 37mpg under the same conditions.
     
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    I am running into the same wall with finding it. I have called numerous stations listed on the Ethanol free site only to find they are now selling E10. It is simply not available at most locales anymore. :(

    Wayne
     
  15. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    My biggest problem is many of the stations that carry E0 are not open 24 hours, so road trips are tricky to plan.
     
  16. RoadWarrior222

    RoadWarrior222 rockit serjun

    My experience of E0 vs E10 over the last decade has been "some motors like E10, some motors don't." I think it alters the burn characteristics that in some way favors some engines.

    I think our changeover was circa 2006-7ish. What I was mostly driving at the time was a borrowed crappy Tempo, auto with 2.3 HSC motor. Now, prior to change, I had discovered it would get 29mpg on Sunoco, which claimed to add ethanol voluntarily, but was only getting 27mpg on most others. Then after the change was getting 29mpg on pretty much everything. Now on my Escort which was seeing a summer average of about 32 at the time, with tanks as high as 36 and 38, prior to change it hated Sunoco, went down to 30 on it and didn't seem to run happy. But it blew a headgasket just before changeover. I was super busy and having to drive the Tempo everywhere. Also the Voyager was down at this time but went from 22 avg to 24 avg in summer driving, after it was going again.

    Anyway, the Escort sat months, and since the head was off, did a thorough "best guess" ethanol efficiency remediation job on it, with some porting tricks and brought the power up a good chunk too. When it was back in service, I could get 32 average on it in summer again. But I was fighting all the time with it to keep the average up, had various ignition issues that persisted 3 years until I found the magic combination of plugs and leads. (ended up with a turbo spec plug due to compression boost) Other maintenance issues plagued me with it, and I haven't got to see the 36es and 38s I sometimes saw on E0, but if the prior to change Sunoco figures were representative, then I think my mods were a net win, even if it didn't manage to "get it all back".

    An interesting discovery was that methanol lowers the effective dehydrogenation point for catalytic dehydrogenation of ethanol in contact with metals. Copper is meant to be best but a lot have some activity. Anyway, it puts it in the realm of intake port temperatures. However, you can't just dump methanol in your E10, because it also spoils it's ability to hold water, so you need to fix that by adding about 20% isopropyl alcohol. Then also lubricity goes to hell because these are solvents, so a touch of something slippy in there will help your fuel pump live. Now when I started messing with this, I already had heard my Voyager fuel pump getting "tired" and noisy which is why I thought I would screw around with things because it needed a new pump anyway... well, the recipe I came up with was 10oz methanol, 2oz IPA and 1 oz TCW-3 (Ashless!) outboard oil. And the damn thing lived for 2 years on that, it still lives, will fire up, but top end power is gone and it really warbles now, mainly not driving it right now due to another issue. (Previous experience with fuel pumps was that as soon as you hear it making an off tone, you've got a month if you're lucky.)

    Anyway, digression, but something about that theory seemed to work and I could get 27mpg average tanks, 80% highway. ....

    Now on the Voyager this may have worked because the intakes were snug between the banks on the V6 and the plenum would cook a bit on top of the motor there, so intake nice and toasty on that, was hitting the ~80C the dehydrogenation process needed...

    On the Escort, I had copperised the intakes on the head, and the recipe appeared to work for about 2 months, but we were heading into winter, and the copper I think got deactivated by the normal metal deactivators in the gas (Usually aimed at preserving bearings etc) so never saw super spectacular gains on that. The intake in general on that stays a lot cooler and although there was coolant passages all round the intake ports, I had a feeling that without the help of the copper they weren't quite getting hot enough for the ethanol to get broken up like I thought was happening in the voyager.


    regards,

    RW222
     
  17. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    Today's fillup at the Liberty station in Front Royal, VA. Price seems to be coming down.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. 1neeto

    1neeto New Member

    E few weeks ago I filled up my 03 civic LX with E0. That car averages 30-32 mixed driving. With the E0 I for 34.5'! And i would've averaged much better if if wasn't for two days of being stuck for nearly two hours in heavier than average traffic. Makes me sick that has is so expensive and 10% of it is not even gas.
     
  19. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    My last tank was E10, and I was surprised that I squeezed 34 MPG out of it. I refilled with E0, and so far on my current tank I'm at 38 on the dash display. I'm shocked that I was able to pull 34 out of the E10, and in the past I only was able to get 27-30 on E10. Also, in the past one E10 tank and my next 3 tanks sucked. I'm 1/4 through the new tank and it appears it has already adjusted back to E0.
     
  20. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Sigh. E0 is a distant , fond memory for me. I'd need to drive 50-75 miles from here to find some.
     

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