MPG Increase - Non-Ethanol Gas - What to Expect?

Discussion in 'Fuel Economy' started by Mightymouse13, May 9, 2012.

  1. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Shade, take a gallon of E10 and put a teaspoon of water in it.. try it in your lawnmower and let me know if you get a hernia before it starts. Thats a good test..

    Dont cheat with an electric start lawnmower.
     
  2. shadescape

    shadescape Banned

    do you know what HEET is

    I have and use Denatured Alcohol- Pure
    you do konw what that is- correct
     
  3. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry Super MPG Man/god :D

    Putting E85 in an unsealed system around here with the humidity as high as it's been would be like putting a hose hooked to a faucet in the tank and turning it on; E85 is somewhat sponge-like in nature.
     
  4. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry Super MPG Man/god :D

    The first year our local station sold the wonderful E85, they lost a huge amount of money on it because by the time spring rolled around, the stuff was completely useless as a motor fuel and it had to be disposed of.
     
  5. shadescape

    shadescape Banned

    hey thanks for that-
    I didn't quite feel like adding a TBS of water to a gallon and then into a gas tank
    but I did put some in a glass jar

    interesting!!

    apoligize for any out of content remarks
     
  6. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    Race gas runs fine in a carbureated engine tuned to run on it. Try filling the tank of a carbed car tuned to run on regular 87 octane gasoline. The result is that it will run lean. I can just about guarantee if I filled the tank of my 1981 Buick with race gas or E85, that it probably won't even start, and if it did it would run like crap. The car runs great on E0, but when I put E10 in it, its noticeably harder to start, and it runs a lot rougher. I would never put E85 in my Buick. Last time I had to have the carb replaced on that car it cost about $1,200 and took my mechanic a couple of months to track the carb down. That was ~15 years ago. I can only imagine that the carb is much harder to find, and more expensive now.
     
  7. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    That's right, for exactly the same reason shadescape's lawnmower ran "like crap" on E85. Predictably, the air/fuel mixture ratio was too lean with a carburetor set up for gasoline.

    Thanks, 08Escape.
     
  8. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Fine, put a teaspoon of water in that and then add to the gallon of gasoline, but why bother?.. all gasoline comes with 10% ethanol already unless you went out of your way to buy non-ecolological sound gasoline.. I cant believe its just a few days past the 4th and you are disrespecting our soldiers and corn farmers.
     
  9. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    During the past couple months, I've hit several 36 MPG tanks in my FEH on ethanol free gasoline. Last week when we lost power in the storm, I had idled my FEH in my driveway for a total of about 13 hours, powering a fan and a couple lights in the house on the dashboard 150w AC outlet. That tank was 22 MPG. Because of all the chaos, I did not have time to make it out to my favorite ethanol free fuel station, and was forced to fillup with E10. This tank, on E10, is only showing 26MPG on the dashboard reading, when it would be reading in the low to mid 30's on E0.

    That's an 8-10 MPG difference between E10 and E0. What's really sad, is E10 is only 4 MPG better than the tank where the vehicle idled for 13 hours in the driveway powering lights in the house. I just can't see how ethanol is helping us collectively as a country. It increases consumption, and underhandedly increases fuel tax revenue. Yes, when ethanol fuels are burned, the emissions are lower/volume than 100% gasoline, but I feel this is more than made up for by increasing the volume of emissions. We should be outraged that the gov't is forcing ethanol on us. Yes, it "helps" the corn farmers, but a field is a field. Its not like you can only plant corn in it. You can plant soybeans, wheat, cotton, tobacco... Just about any crop. If corn is no longer as profitable, they will find a more profitable crop to plant.

    What if you found out that your favorite restaurant was adding a special ingredient to all of their food that made you hungrier, and made you eat more. You'd be upset, right? You would be getting fatter, purchasing more food, and the restaurant owner would be enjoying higher profits. I pay $0.10/gal more for ethanol free fuel and I get almost 10MPG more out of it. I spend less on gasoline total because I get so much more out of what I buy. Forget about the ethanol content. Forget about all the science. Forget about emissions. Forget about the "poor" corn farmers. What if your friends told you that they got 10 MPG better in their cars when they purchased fuel from "Station X" in your town, and "Station X" only charges $0.10/gal more than "Station Y". Wouldn't you start buying your gas there too?
     
  10. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    There is something wrong with your Escape if it dropped from mid 30s to 26mpg with just a switch to E10.. are you sure its not going into open loop mode with E10?.. run E10 for a while ands see if the plugs soot-up. I would think it would light up the "need service" light but perhaps there is a glitch.

    If it were up to me we would all be running on pure methanol, made from coal.. or an 80% mix of ethanol and 20% water plus gasoline just to start the car.. but in reality we have lots and lots of oil and gasoline is plentiful, lets use that up first. Gasoline can also be made from coal. Yes you will need a bigger fuel tank to go 1000 miles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  11. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    Looking back at my fuel records, I have a few E10 tanks clocking in at 31 MPG, but most of them are in the 26-28 MPG range. My E0 tanks (not counting my idling tank last week) range from 28-36 MPG, with most of them in the 31-33 MPG range. All appears to be normal, the long term fuel trim (as shown on my ScanGauge) usually reads from -4 to +1.5 when running on E0, with it spending most of the time between -2 and -1. When running on E10 it usually reads +2 to +8, usually hovering around +4 the bulk of the time. It passed emissions last fall, and the CEL does not come on. I just think this behavior is normal for the Escape Hybrid. I don't want to start taking it apart as it is still under warranty, so if any wrenching is to be going on I take it to the dealer.
     
  12. shadescape

    shadescape Banned

    I didn't say my lawn mower ran "like crap"

    too lean- you haven't quite got it
    maybe you should think about the burn ratio of different fuels and why proper timing is critical

    you take a carb that has fixed jets-
    you'll find quickly that some gas makes a big difference

    we were racing a YZ125- works bike- RPM 167 engine- you had to run race gas-
    do you know why it's called race gas

    in Denver at The Nationals we ran 1/2 premium- 1/2 races gas
    do you know why

    fuel injected engines are quite different
    optimum operation they still have to be set up for a drastic difference in fuel

    we had a Dyno- well- our sponser did- and it takes an expert to be able to read/diagnose/and set an engine for every bit of power- same goes for efficency

    you really think your computer on your vehicle can adjust to perfectly control things with drastic fuel changes- and yet still give the performance and mpg

    some things can't be learned by the internet-
    they have to be experienced
     
  13. shadescape

    shadescape Banned

    [​IMG]

    hope this is ok with you folks at Cleanmpg.com

    think some may feel I'm blowing smoke
    both these were manufactured in 2008

    project one is the red one
     
  14. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    That's quite a handsome pair of Escapes you have there!
     
  15. shadescape

    shadescape Banned

    thank you 08escapeHybrid
     
  16. some_other_dave

    some_other_dave Well-Known Member

    Oooooh! I know, I know!! Because it smells.... like VICTORY! ;)


    For the same reason that "regular" fuel in Denver is 85 octane instead of 87 like in lower-altitude states? :D

    -soD
     
  17. shadescape

    shadescape Banned

    you are wise:D

    In Crested Butte in March I didn't pay attention to the octane- hum
     
  18. shadescape

    shadescape Banned

    I have 3 Quaker State new oil filters- #QS14610
    from my Honda Civic
    just as soon give them to someone-

    ItsNotAboutThe Money- you want these
     
  19. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Update:
    Bought my new 2013 Elantra, bad-mouthed for bad mpg, believing the complainers were lead-footed big mouths. Using 100% gasoline(ethanol-free), Elantra is averaging 39mpg, with 15% city driving. The last 5 out of 6 tanks have been 40mpg or more, all tanks used in 4 to 7+ days.
    Oh, yeah, pure-gas.org has almost 7200 listings for 100% gasoline, now...... many restrictions however. Many many sources only have upper octane or limited octane, 100% gasoline supplies. Airport or marina sources often are not obvious, with no advertising, behind buildings, or like one in Anacortes, WA, you must carry gas containers across a walking bridge to a fuel dock & return to your car. However, to have access to 100% gasoline..... well worth the inconvenience, considering half or more of America has no access to 100% gasoline.

    pure-gas.org has addresses & even GPS coordinates.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2013
  20. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    Another thing to consider, is many times, even when a station is a regular fuel station for cars, the ethanol free pump is not out on the main island with all the other pumps. I've seen them on the outskirts of the station, and one station had the pump on the sidewalk out front, Looked like a Kerosene pump. Only way to fuel your car was to park in the handicapped spot.
     

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