2017 Ford F-150 Efficiency Improves with All-new 3.5L EcoBoost V6 and 10-Speed AT

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG] Another to place on next year's test list.

    [​IMG]Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – Oct. 5, 2016

    2017 Ford F-150 2X4 Super Crew XL Trim w/ the 3.5L V6 EB and 10-speed AT - $37,160 to start including the $1,195 D&H charge and new engine/10-speed transmission upgrade. It also arrives with the 3.15 rear end in the 2X4 standard. Even with that tall rear end, the 2017 w/ the new 3.5L EB and 10-speed is tow/and payload rated for 10,600/10,700 and 2,890 lbs. depending on the bed length as a 2X4 Crew Cab.

    With the base 245/70R17 tires, 3.15 rear end, and 0.636 10th gear final, it is actually slightly shorter overall (1,320 RPM@60 mph) than the 2011 3.5L EB w/ the 6-speed AT and same rear end (1,270 RPM@60 mph).

    The 2017 Ford F-150 arrives with an even more efficient all-new 3.5L EcoBoost V6 mated to an all-new 10-speed automatic transmission.

    City/highway ratings are both up 1 mpg, with the combined rating for 2017 F-150 4x4 up 2 mpg.

    2017 Ford F-150 4x2 – 18/25/21 mpg city/highway/combined
    2016 Ford F-150 4x2 – 17/24/20 mpg city/highway/combined

    2017 Ford F-150 4x4 – 17/23/20 mpg city/highway/combined
    2016 Ford F-150 4x4 – 16/22/18 mpg city/highway/combined

    2017 F-150 owners will receive quicker acceleration and supposedly refinement delivered by the all-new drivetrain. This new powertrain combination provides better low-end and peak performance.

    2nd Gen 3.5L EcoBoost V6

    This second-generation engine delivers 10 more hp and 50 lb.-ft. more peak torque for a segment-best 375 hp and 470 lb.-ft. than its predecessor.

    A new twin-port and direct-injection fuel system provides lower particulate at startup and while running plus detergent gasoline can clean the intakes, stem and valve tops during operation.

    A lighter and stronger crank, lighter valvetrain components, redesigned twin turbocharger with electronic wastegate, redesigned valvetrain, and a variable-displacement oil pump are included in the redesign.

    10-Speed AT

    The all-new 10-speed automatic transmission available for 2017 F-150 on both 4x2 and 4x4 models optimizes engine power and torque ranges, with closer ratios between gears and patented hydraulic controls.

    Smarter shift logic with tow/haul mode makes it even easier to tow. An all-new adaptive shift-schedule monitors more than a dozen powertrain and driver control signals in real time to make the truck shift as smooth as possible. A high-speed one-way clutch allows for non-sequential shifting when light output is demanded.

    The 10-speed gearbox uses advanced materials and alloys. An integrated torque converter/turbine clutch helps shave more than two pounds, while reducing the packaging footprint.

    The best gasoline fueled Ford truck engine ever built was without question was the 1st gen 3.5L EcoBoost V6 introduced back in 2011. The improvements spelled out above should make it an even better.
  2. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Hmm EPA numbers matched the original Ram 3.6 plain jane motor 8 speed AT
    It will be interesting to see how it does at a steady 60 mph
    xcel likes this.
  3. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    Matching the Ram and having an extra 200 lb-ft of torque is pretty impressive.
    xcel likes this.
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Late last month the 2017 Ford F-150 was awarded the J.D. Power’s 2017 Vehicle Dependability Study award for large light duty pickup.

    2017 Ford F-150


    Ford research shows F-150’s dependability is a key differentiator for the truck over the competition. Truck shoppers say they prioritize a pickup truck’s quality above all other attributes.

    In addition to F-150 ranking highest among large light duty pickups, Ford takes home second most-improved brand in a tie in the annual J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study.

    BillLin likes this.
  5. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    I'm just about convinced that full sized pickups will be aerodynamically maxed out at no more than 25 mpg --real world, tank to tank for the average driver. .. ref fuelly, even with all the tech (lowering suspension, diesel, ecoboost, hybrid ,... whatever ... ) the best is still just barely making 20 mpg.

    /...and breaking the "25 mpg threshold" is going to require a design that no longer looks like a pickup (i.e. lower and more "teardroppy")
    // does it make sense to keep plowing developmental money in, and expecting blood out, of this turnip?? == probably the real reason OEM's are talking to Trump, .. they know the inherent design limitations of full sized "cash cow" pickups
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2017
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  6. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    I doubt that any gasoline 1/2 ton driven by average drivers-say 50/50 city hy
    averages 25 mpg
    The Dodge 3.0 TD probably does
    Doesn't the EPA have such numbers online?
    People posting their actual mpg?(but they would self select)
    What does consumer reports "report"
    Their numbers are "real world"(yeah I will get lots of guff)-but their numbers are probably good "average drivers in a hurry" numbers

    In any case-I don't think any spark 1/2 tons are averaging 25 mpg
    But you are right-big 1/2 ton spark engined pick ups aren't going to beat 25 mpg by much-not without some sort of hybridizing to capture some of the wasted city braking
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  7. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    The fuelly numbers from the best of the best (ecodiesel Ram 1500) are:

    2014: 21 vehicles 1,008 fillups = 22.5 mpg
    2015: 78 vehicles 2,341 fillups = 23.2 mpg

    So, AT BEST 23 mpg ... and this from fuel conscious drivers (i.e. the ones who take the time to report on fuelly).

    .. and even though we've seen a couple of the diesel pickups return pretty good steady state highway numbers,.. you have to realize steady states are usually taken in near perfect conditions. When the conditions go less than perfect the heavyweight, tall, high drag vehicles will take a proportionately bigger hit. They sit up higher where the winds are stronger, the dense cold air has a bigger effect, the hills have a bigger effect, a heavy foot has a bigger effect, when it's a wet highway they have to pump more water out from under the tires.... etc.. etc...

    Even if you plug-in hybridize a pickup it just exacerbates the weight problem and does almost nothing for the highway mpg.... and what batteries you do carry will be quickly depleted in stop and go.

    The "mine's bigger than your's" truck mentality has backed the OEMs into a mpg hole that there's no climbing out of. Go back to the reasonable sized (and totally work capable) "half tons of yore" and there could be room for improvement.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  8. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    true hybridizing-always favors JUST city driving
    But the 60 mpg steady hy-done here(this is from memory so might be off a bit)
    Dodge 3.6 30 mpg
    Dodge 3.0TD 41 MPG
    HUGE CUMMINS 4X4 3/4 TON MONSTER MOTOR 6.7 TD 25MPG- unbelievable really
    I think the current GM 5.3 gives 25-26 mpg at 60

    On the other hand the poor Ford 2.8 turbo(twin turbo) delivered a class low 22 mpg at 60 mph-which calls into question Ford's entire strategy
    using small but very complicated turbo(twin turbo) spark ignition motors-to get good FE
    BUT they delivery LOWER-ish mpg than GMs large somewhat "primitive" 2 valve pushrod strategy-
    and MUCH less than Dodge's simple plain jane 3.6
    and much much much less that Dodge's Turbo Diesel(both of them) approach
    geez a twin turbo 2.8 or 3.5 is probably as expensive as a single turbo 3.0TD
    besides -the 2.8 doesn't beat the -GIGANTUS -ZILLION FT LB ZILLION LB ZILLION LB TOW RATING 6.7 CUMMINS
    and the 3.5 barely beats the GIGANTUS CUMMINS - straight 6's are COOL-
    V-6's are somewhat sissy-ish(balance shafts etc)
    The Dodge 3.6 V-6 avoids the sissy label by delivering world class mpg in a simple package
    The GM 5.3 -heck it is a V-8-
    a V-6 has to do something outstanding to not be sissyish-
    the dodge 3.6-world beater in simple package no turbo 300 hp
    Dodge 3.0TD-a world beater
    and Ford's 3.5 "we make sooo much torque blah blah" BS- want torque-GEAR DOWN-
    300 hp 3.6 Dodge-use gearing to get torque
    240 hp 3.0TD comes with 400 ft lbs- but 240 hp is PLENTY for a 1/2 TON
    I bet those WW2 Studebaker Ruskie/commie trucks-didn't make more than 120 hp-but they won the war for our commie allies
    bet our RED BALL express trucks-WW2 same story-
    200 hp with 8 speeds is PLENTY of HP for a 1/2 ton

    Ford's turbo spark motors-are delivering about as well as the same strategy did in the late 1970's early 1980's-not well-
    GM's big but LIGHT and compact simple to built motor matches them(cylinder shut off FUEL MANAGEMENTworks-yes many think it causes oil consumption problems)
    Dodge plain jane 3.6 BEATS the Fords
    Dodge's TDs KILL Ford's gas turbo V-6's
    Turbo spark ignition motors in 1/2 tons-are a FAIL so far-
    Turbo gasoline motors have boost limitations(detonation and preignition)
    so my guess is they STILL have to "run rich" and have lowish static compression to tolerate BOOST
    TDs have no such problem-the LOVE BOOST LOVE COMPRESSION(16/1)
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
    BillLin and xcel like this.
  9. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    The bigger the truck, the harder they fall ...

    Q. What do the "big 3" 1 ton diesel pickups get when they're hauling in real world conditions?
    A. About 6 mpg. (modern 18 wheelers do better than that)

    [Ram 3500 HD = 6.6, Chevy Silverado HD = 6.4, Ford F-350 SD = 5.7]

    /which would mean, leaving 50 miles or so of reserve, that you are stopping to fill a 36 gallon diesel tank about every 160 to 170 miles. ... Long haul trucking? .. Make sure you have plenty of time, .. and a credit card.
    (tfltruck for a video comparison on the 2017's)
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
    BillLin likes this.
  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    The 2016 RAM 2500 w/ the std. 3.42 rear end and 2014 Ram 3500 w/ the 3.73 , both with the 6.7L Cummins, were within 1.5 mpg of one another on their respective curves and calibration drives IIRC. When towing 5,200 lbs, the RAM 2500 almost matched the Titan with the Cummins when empty. It would surely bury all of the rest with gas or TDs when towing as well.

    BillLin likes this.
  11. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne,

    Looks like the 4.10 is required for the heavier trailer. .. So the 3.42 and 3.73 RAMs couldn't compete in this competition (22,800# trailer).

    BillLin likes this.
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    Of all the Pickups I saw today, maybe 200 on I-94, none were towing anything near 22,000+ lbs. Most were not towing anything.

    BillLin likes this.
  13. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Yeah-most pickups rarely tow or even bed carry
    And even the 3/4 and 1 tons-don't approach their claimed tow limits
    having the high capacity is convenient on various jobs-you don't have to hire a tractor-and get the equipment back "on time"

    and like wayne's says-the 6.7 Cummins makes the rest look like sissys-tow no tow-
    its little 3.0td Italian brother does the same around town

    Dodge -RAM-Chrysler motors was all but left for dead in 2008 until both presidents-Bush and Obama
    had the good sense to save them and all those jobs-
    now their trucks are "the best" in one very important respect-mpg-(cars are ok-ish)
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  14. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Carcus-yes the modern 18 wheelers will get SLIGHTLY(maybe) better mpg than a 1 ton Cummins pickup towing 20,000
    and that is a MAYBE since the mpg numbers we see for them are with somewhat AERO trailers
    BUT BUT a modern Tractor COST??
    maybe $250,000 just for the "puller"
    with a 1 ton you can transport 6 adults-PLUS you can haul 3 tons in a built in BED-
    a pickup is MUCH cheaper and much more versatile than a modern tractor puller-
    they are one trick ponies-you have to HOOK something to them
    and they carry just 1 passenger-ONE-
    and they probably have HORRENDOUS maintenance and repair costs
    for a measly $60,000-$70,000 or so you get a much more versatile pickup
    and the tires don't cost a $ZILLION each and can be bought at SAMS mounted at SAMS-
    xcel likes this.

Share This Page