482,000 VW TDIs Produce 5 to 35Xs the NOx Beyond Federal Emissions Requirements

Discussion in 'Volkswagen' started by priusCpilot, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Monday June 20, 2016

    Hi All:

    Not quite noteworthy with regards to the VW emissions non-compliance problem and its fix, German prosecutors are now investigating former VW CEO Martin Winterkorn and another unnamed executive over allegations they didn’t inform investors soon enough about the company’s scandal over TDI vehicles rigged to cheat U.S. emissions tests.

    Matthias Diekman, a Braunschweig prosecutor spokesman, said in the statement that a probe was opened at the behest of Germany’s Federal Financial Supervisory Authority, the country’s financial watchdog.

    Why? German market law requires publicly traded companies to alert investors as soon as they have unforeseen developments that could affect a decision to buy or sell the stock. Prosecutors said that VWs notification on Sept. 22 was long after the required disclosure obligation should have occurred.

    Volkswagen stated Winterkorn was sent a memo as early as May 23, 2014, about emissions irregularities uncovered by an environmental group, but the company was not sure he saw it, and said that top officials discussed the matter long after on July 27, 2015.

    The company believed that to be the case could be resolved with little cost up though early September 2015, just weeks before the U.S. EPA issued a violation notice. With that notice, VW realized that financial risks were going to be far more onerous and issued an investor advisory four days later.

    The prosecutors’ news release said that the second employee is not the current board of directors’ chairman, Hans Dieter Poetsch. Poetsch, CFO under Winterkorn, but has since left that post.

    Volkswagen has stated previously in response to an investor lawsuit that it met its disclosure obligation and has set aside over $18 billion USD to deal with the costs of recalls and fixes.

    Volkswagen plans to submit a $10 billion settlement in the U.S. by a June 28 court deadline, although insiders are stating it may not yet have a working retrofit for the hundreds of thousands of TDI vehicles sold between the years in question.

    VW AGs Reply

    The initiation by the Braunschweig public prosecution service on June 17, 2016 of investigation proceedings against two members of the former Board of Management only became known to Volkswagen AG immediately before today's publication of the corresponding press release.

    Today's press release from the Braunschweig public prosecution service does not cite any new facts or information on any serious breaches of duty by the members of the Board of Management now accused.

    Volkswagen AG's recommendation to the Annual General Meeting concerning formal approval of the actions of the Supervisory Board and Board of Management is based on information currently available from the comprehensive although not yet concluded investigation into the diesel matter by the independent investigator, U.S. law firm Jones Day. On this basis, law firm Gleiss Lutz carried out a comprehensive legal review, which has been confirmed by Professor Wulf Goette (retired chief justice at the German Federal Court of Justice). The Board of Management similarly obtained the advice of law firm CMS Hasche Sigle. In both of these legal reviews, according to information currently available, no serious and manifest breaches of duty on the part of any serving or former members of the Board of Management have been established that would stand in the way of granting formal approval at this time. This is the basis for the recommendation concerning formal approval.

    As has been planned for some time, the Supervisory Board and the Board of Management will once again obtain legal advice from the aforementioned law firms prior to the Annual General Meeting concerning whether there is any new information to be taken into account with regard to formal approval of the actions of the members of the Board of Management and Supervisory Board for fiscal year 2015.
  2. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Tuesday June 28, 2016

    VW Settles with Regulators, States and Consumers for Emissions Dilemma

    [​IMG] Company sets aside $17.9 billion USD to cover all the costs associated with the various parties through an all-encompassing agreement.

    [​IMG]Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – June 28, 2016

    The highly rated 2016 Passat crossing a bridge in Vermont earlier this year.

    There was “some” closure this morning to the largest automotive manufacturer deceit case in history with a fine that was also larger than any ever placed on any automotive manufacturer in history. Repair/fixes were not announced and claims from investors, individual consumers and VWs own US dealerships that are suing outside of the Federal court jurisdiction are not included in today’s release.

    VW AG along with the DOJ, FTC, EPA and CARB announced today that VW has reached settlement agreements with the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) and the State of California; the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC); and private plaintiffs represented by the Plaintiffs' Steering Committee (PSC) to resolve civil claims regarding eligible Volkswagen and Audi 2.0L TDI diesel engine vehicles in the U.S.

    Of the approximately 499,000 2.0L TDL vehicles that were produced for sale in the U.S., approximately 460,000 VWs and 15,000 Audi’s that are still on the road will be eligible for buybacks and lease terminations or emissions modifications, if approved by regulators. VW will establish a maximum funding pool for the 2.0L TDI settlement program of $10.033 billion. That amount assumes 100% participation and that 100% of eligible customers choose a buyback or lease termination.

    The agreements covering the proposed 2.0L TDI settlement program are subject to the approval of Judge Charles R. Breyer of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, who presides over the federal Multi-District Litigation (MDL) proceedings related to the diesel matter.

    Volkswagen also announced that it has agreed with the attorneys general of 44 U.S. states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico to resolve existing and potential state consumer protection claims related to the diesel matter for a total settlement amount of approximately $603 million.

    Matthias Müller, Chief Executive Officer of Volkswagen AG:
    Three Separate Agreements

    Three agreements have been submitted to the Court for its approval with respect to the proposed 2.0L TDI settlement program:
    1. A Consent Decree filed with the Court by the DOJ on behalf of the EPA and by the State of California by and through the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and the California Attorney General

    2. A Consent Order submitted by the FTC

    3. A proposed class settlement agreement with the PSC on behalf of a nationwide settlement class of current and certain former owners and lessees of eligible 2.0L TDI VW and Audi vehicles
    All parties believe that the class settlement as presented to the Court will provide a fair and reasonable resolution for affected VW and Audi customers. Volkswagen continues to work on and reach an agreed resolution for affected vehicles with 3.0L TDI V6 turbo diesel engines.

    On April 22, 2016, Volkswagen recognized total exceptional charges of €16.2 billion ($17.9 billion USD at today’s exchange rate) in its financial statements for 2015 to cover worldwide provisions related to technical modifications, repurchases, legal risks and other items as a result of the diesel matter. At that time, due to the complexities and legal uncertainties associated with resolving the diesel matter, a future assessment of the risks may be different. <-- There is still some open items within the proposed settlement as their always is.

    Frank Witter, Chief Financial Officer of Volkswagen AG:
    The agreements announced today are not an admission of liability by Volkswagen despite their direct involvement with the emissions controls used on the various engine designs through the effected years. The agreements are not intended to apply to or affect Volkswagen's obligations under the laws or regulations of any jurisdiction outside the U.S. Regulations governing NOx emissions limits for vehicles in the U.S. are much stricter than those in other parts of the world and the engine variants differ significantly. This makes any technical solutions in the U.S. more challenging than in Europe and other parts of the world, where implementation of an approved program to modify TDI vehicles to comply fully with UN/ECE and European emissions standards have already begun by agreement with the relevant authorities in those countries.

    Proposed 2.0L TDI Settlements

    2016 VW Passat

    We may see the mighty TDI moniker attached to its trunk again soon. Expect a higher mpg figure as well. ;)

    Subject to Court approval of the proposed 2.0L TDI settlement program, Volkswagen has agreed, among other terms, to:
    • Buy back or terminate the leases of eligible vehicles, or provide free emissions modifications (if approved by the EPA and CARB), and also make cash payments to affected current and certain former owners and lessees.

    • VW will establish a single funding pool to cover the 2.0L TDI settlement program. The maximum funding amount will not exceed $10.033 billion and is dependent on how many customers participate in the program and which option they choose if proposed modifications are approved.

    • Customers can choose to sell back their vehicle to Volkswagen or terminate their lease without penalty, or, if a modification is approved, choose to have their vehicle modified free of charge and keep it. Customers who select any of these options will also receive a cash payment from Volkswagen.

    • Eligible vehicles value for a buyback will be determined based on the Clean Trade-In Value as published in the September 2015 edition of the NADA Used Car Guide, with adjustments for factory options and mileage.
    In detail, each affected TDI owner will receive the repurchase price of their vehicle plus an additional $5,100 to $10,000 depending on the model and year. Lessees who terminate their leases early will receive half of what an eligible owner would receive for an equivalent vehicle. Now don’t you wish you owned a 2009 – 2015 VW TDI right now?

    Support the following environmental programs in the U.S. by agreement with the EPA and CARB:
    • Pay $2.7 billion over three years into an environmental trust, managed by a trustee appointed by the Court, to remediate excess NOx emissions from 2.0L TDI vehicles. <-- More investment into BEVs and FCVs in addition to what the company has already earmarked for investment into the technologies.

    • Invest $2.0 billion over 10 years in zero emissions vehicle (ZEV) infrastructure, access and awareness initiatives.

    • Volkswagen will begin the settlement program as soon as the Court grants final approval to the settlement agreements. At the earliest, approval will occur in the fall of 2016.
    Potential claimants under the class settlement do not need to contact Volkswagen or Audi, or their dealers, at this time. Individual class members will receive extensive notification of their rights and options (including the option to "opt out" of the settlement agreement) if the Court grants preliminary approval of the proposed class settlement at a public hearing scheduled to take place on July 26, 2016.

    More information about the proposed 2.0L TDI settlement program, including the settlement agreements in full, can be found at VW Court Settlement or Audi Court Settlement.

    New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman who led the investigation by the states in a release stated:
    June 28th, 2016 – VW AG Stock Price (ADR) on the OTC


    Large investors took today's disclosures with a positive tone as the ADR was up almost $1.00 or 3.46 percent to 27.79/share at the close. Long term however, the emissions scandal has caused almost 5 years’ worth of gains to be wiped out from just before the admission of wrongdoing was announced to today's close in comparison to 5 years ago. At least there was a dividend to sit on all of this time.

    Moving forward, if only I had bought that Passat TDI back in 2013 like I was so close to doing. I also cannot wait to shop the local VW dealership lot when the mighty TDI returns. That announcement has not yet been made however.
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2015 VW Jetta TDI


    Terrible shot but I met a young lady at a Shell station the other day who was driving a 15 VW Jetta TDI. I asked her about her purchase, how she liked her car and her thoughts about the emissions mess.

    She had an 06 at home with 300k miles on it and bought this one just weeks before the story broke. With 36k miles on it, she continues to receive her $s worth.

    She also stated that the buyback will probably net her $10k, the used car price from last October, and the freebies given away so far but will miss this car tremendously.

    This is very typical of VW TDI owners I have spoken with around the country. Most just want their TDI as is. She did as well.

    #Efficient #long #distance #traveler
  5. radtech

    radtech Active Member

    So what is a 15 VW Passat TDI with 40k on the meter going to get as "Clean" value and the ($5k-$10K) buyback? Any guesses?
    xcel likes this.
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Radtech:

    I am guessing but a 15 Passat SE with an AT went for $27,095 new at retail. Drop maybe $6k for the miles and used so $21k + the $10k buyback plus the $1k CC deal and $1k service...

    I wish I won that lottery for driving arguably the best mid-size on the road for over a year. :)

  7. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    xcel likes this.
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG] Tuesday July 26, 2016

    VW Announces Preliminary Approval of 2.0L TDI Settlement Program in the U.S.

    VW AG announced today that Judge Charles R. Breyer of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California has granted preliminary approval of the settlement agreement reached on June 28 with private plaintiffs represented by the Plaintiffs’ Steering Committee (PSC) to resolve civil claims regarding eligible Volkswagen and Audi 2.0L TDI vehicles in the U.S.

    Individual class members will now receive notification of their rights and options under the agreement. Volkswagen will begin the settlement program immediately after the Court grants final approval to the class settlement, which is anticipated on October 18, 2016.

    Under the proposed settlement, eligible customers will have two choices: (1) they can sell back their vehicle to Volkswagen or terminate their lease without an early termination penalty, or, (2) keep their vehicle and receive a free emissions modification, if approved by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the California Air Resources Board (CARB). Customers who select any of these options under the settlement will also receive a cash payment from Volkswagen.

    VW Court Settlement

    VW appreciates the constructive engagement of all the parties, under the direction of Judge Breyer and with the active participation of Special Master Robert S. Mueller III, as the settlement approval process moves forward. The parties believe that the proposed settlement program will provide a fair, reasonable and adequate resolution for affected Volkswagen and Audi customers.

    The following 2.0L TDI engine vehicles are included in the proposed 2.0L TDI settlement program:

    2013 - 2015 VW Beetle
    2010 - 2015 VW Golf
    2009 - 2015 VW Jetta
    2012 - 2015 VW Passat
    2010 - 2013; 2015 Audi A3

    VW continues to work closely with the EPA and CARB on an approved emissions modification for each of the 2.0L TDI engine vehicles listed above. Volkswagen is also trying to secure approval of a technical resolution for affected vehicles with a V6 3.0L TDI engine as quickly as possible.

    In addition to the proposed class settlement, Volkswagen has entered into a separate Consent Decree with the United States Department of Justice (acting on behalf of the EPA), CARB and the California Attorney General and a separate Partial Stipulated Order for Permanent Injunction and Monetary Judgment with the United States Federal Trade Commission regarding 2.0L TDI vehicles. Volkswagen has also resolved current and potential consumer protection claims of 44 U.S. states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico.

    The agreements are not an admission of liability by Volkswagen. By their terms, they are not intended to apply to or affect Volkswagen's obligations under the laws or regulations of any jurisdiction outside the United States. The company continues to work to resolve other outstanding legal matters in the United States.
  9. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    Canadian owners are not impressed that things are dragging on so long here. Many expected to hear some news after today's court update but all we know is that discussions are ongoing, with no further timelines given.


    Yesterday, the Ontario Superior Court of Justice received an update from Volkswagen and the other parties on the progress of proceedings and discussions about affected 2.0L TDI vehicles in Canada. The parties informed the Court that discussions are ongoing. As discussions continue, the Court’s order to keep the details confidential will remain in place.

    It remains our primary goal to reach terms that treat our valued Canadian customers fairly. We will share more information as soon as we’re able.
    xcel likes this.
  10. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    Looking forward it appears that VW is pretty much done investing in diesel. I don't suppose that will surprise anyone considering the technical issues, to say nothing of the optics and political fallout. My personal expectation is that they'll keep selling the 3.0L for a while in the bigger, faster, more expensive models but the 2.0L TDI is completely done in the North American market.
    xcel likes this.
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Tim:

    It will be a sad day if the 2.0L is dropped. Electrification is great for efficiency but cost and exterior design wise, I suspect VW will get hurt in the transition.

    BillLin likes this.
  12. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    This one ( giant ) blunder for VW could eventually kill all diesel passenger cars worldwide. What a shame.
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  13. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    On the other hand, many of the diesel cars on the road today (along with the majority of GDI cars) are killing those in the immediate vicinity through particulate emissions.

    I'd like to see the diesel cars fixed, not allowed to run indefinitely or scrapped.
    xcel likes this.
  14. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    I think it still looks like what some of us suspected from the start of this debacle. "budget" diesels will not be available going forward. It's too hard to clean up the emissions, so you're only going to see it in higher end (usually bigger) vehicles that can absorb the complication/weight/expense. And there is some indications that this is hurting the long term reliability on the (actually) clean diesel vehicles.

    Hopefully, the tech will evolve, but VW appears to have given up on the budget diesels and will now focus on electric instead.
    BillLin likes this.
  15. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Tightening emissions regulations in the EU will make urea injection mandatory for all car makers putting the cost of diesel very close to gasoline/electric hybrid. Here's Hyundai's take on the situation:
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  16. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I wonder what makes the diesel engine cost $3k more at factory cost compared to gasoline engine?
    xcel likes this.
  17. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Still lots of unanswered questions, a month after the announcement.
    - The press release raises the possibility that modification might still be an option, but VW still hasn't told us what the fix might entail, let alone its effect on engine output or fuel economy (not to mention long term maintenance issues).
    - According to the press release, modification is subject to "approval by the EPA and CARB." Will VW even be able to come up with a mod that passes muster with regulators (and its own financial officers)?
    - Owners supposedly will be able to choose between buyback and modification, but can't exactly make an informed decision without knowing whether modification will actually be approved and what it will do to their cars. How much longer will everyone have to wait? Is VW making technical progress towards a fix for North America?
    - If modification is approved, will VW scrap the vehicles, C2C-style? Or if modification is approved by EPA/CARB, will VW be allowed to apply the mod to the cars it bought back, and then resell them through its dealers?
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  18. radtech

    radtech Active Member

    xcel likes this.
  19. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    Truth. This is my first GDI car and it's also the first with exhaust tips that I've had to scrub clean every thousand miles. Particle traps are coming to GDI cars, but they happen to be one of the primary liabilities on today's diesels. If your drive cycle doesn't include longer, higher-speed runs at regular intervals they have trouble burning themselves off. (Hence no diesel for me...few long drives.) But hey, maybe port injection will have a resurgence! It still works for Toyota's hybrid fleet and the hardware is cheap.
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  20. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Here's some info on GDI and carbon deposits:

    Why Direct Injection Engines Develop Carbon Deposits

    "There are three reasons why direct injection engines are more prone to carbon deposits. One reason is unique to direct injection, and the remaining two are problems for port fuel injection engines too, but are made worse by direct injection......."

    Kind of scary, because it looks a whole lot like all the problems we've seen with TDI diesel engines over the years, (as the years progressed the engines got more efficient, but more complicated, and more maintenance problems, and now .... to a large degree,... taken off the market. It makes you wonder if GDI will follow the same path with maintenance issues, not so nice software updates, etc.... that the 2.0 diesel TDI's suffered before they got "put out to pasture".

    /should be interesting to see how Honda's 1.5t handles the carbon buildup.... a short forum thread on the subject here:
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016
    xcel and BillLin like this.

Share This Page