Honda and Toyota FCV World Debuts with Headwinds

Discussion in 'FCV or Fuel Cell Vehicle' started by xcel, Nov 18, 2014.

  1. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Well-Known Member

    Hydrogen has a lot to overcome. How much does each of these hydrogen production / filling stations cost? How many cars can fill up per day? Where does the electricity come from? How much electricity is used to produce the hydrogen for each car filled?
     
    xcel likes this.
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Toyota’s H2 FCV powered Mirai made its first motorsport appearance while competing at the Gurston Down Speed Hill Climb.

    [​IMG]
    Photo by Matt Goldsmith of Akina Media​

    At Gurston Down in Wiltshire, the Toyota Mirai made its UK motorsport debut by competing in one of the sport’s oldest and most traditional formats – a hill climb speed trial. Driven by journalist David Finlay and sporting a one-off mirror-chrome full body wrap, it recorded a best time of 44.44 seconds over the 0.6-mile course, at an average speed of 62.5 mph.

    The Mirai ran whisper-quiet and produced no local tailpipe emissions other than water.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  3. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Remember someone posted a comparison picture with a Cylon? Would be even better with the chrome-like paint job. :)
     
    xcel likes this.
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hyundai and DOE Extend FCV Loan Partnership with New D.C.-Based H2 Fueling Station

    Latest, Phase II of current program prepares for rollout of fuel cell vehicles nationwide in near future

    Hyundai and the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) are extending their fuel cell vehicle confirmation program, originally from 2013 through 2015, to its second phase, from 2016 through 2017. The program involves Hyundai providing a number of Tucson FCVs for daily use and confirmation by the DOE using existing H2 infrastructure. This phase of the program will make significant use of a newly-opened hydrogen refueling station in the Washington D.C. region.

    2015 Tucson FCV

    Phase one of the Hyundai/DOE program was focused on the Southern California where the earliest H2 infrastructure existed.

    [​IMG]

    Phase two further expands the program’s reach to Northern California, Washington D.C., Michigan and Denver. Phase two starts in July 2016 in conjunction with the opening of the newest D.C.-based hydrogen station. Tucson FCVs will use this newest DOE-developed H2 station extensively.

    The Hyundai/DOE partnership effectively continues preparation for the rollout of fuel cell vehicles nationwide in the near future. Some key advantages of hydrogen fuel cells over battery-powered electrified vehicles is their quick refueling capability, longer range, more flexible vehicle size scalability and maintenance of range performance in colder climates.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Honda Celebrates National H2 and Fuel Cell Day

    The all-new Honda Clarity FC Sedan will reach Californian’s before the end of the year.

    Honda is joining with organizations across America in celebrating National Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Day to raise awareness of fuel cell and hydrogen technologies that can help to reduce greenhouse gas emissions while increasing the nation's energy security.

    2017 Honda Clarity FCV

    [​IMG]

    Honda will introduce its new 5-passenger, H2 fueled Clarity Fuel Cell sedan by the end of the year, beginning with retail leasing to customers in select California markets. The Clarity Fuel Cell has a refueling time of approximately three to five minutes.

    The U.S. Senate provided official recognition of October 8 as National Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Day last year, in recognition of the atomic weight of hydrogen (1.008), raising awareness of the role fuel cell vehicles can play in the future of energy and mobility in America.

    Sales and marketing will begin through certified FCV dealers located in the Los Angeles and Orange County regions, as well as, for the first time, the San Francisco Bay and Sacramento areas, where the network of hydrogen stations has started in earnest.

    Potential customers interested in the Clarity Fuel Cell are encouraged to visit Honda Clarity, where they can receive more information and sign up for the opportunity to become a Clarity Fuel Cell customer.

    The Clarity Fuel Cell fuel cell stack is 33 percent more compact than its predecessor with a 60 percent increase in power density compared to the outgoing Honda FCX Clarity. The more compact fuel cell and integrated powertrain now fits entirely in the engine bay, allowing for a more spacious cabin with seating for five passengers. The new Honda Clarity Fuel Cell will feature a driving range anticipated to exceed 300 miles, with a refueling time of approximately three to five minutes using 10k psi refueling stations.

    The Honda Clarity Fuel Cell features a low, wide aerodynamic body with clean lines. The interior includes upscale rich materials and intuitive, streamlined controls. Additional features include the Honda Sensing safety and driver assistive technologies, Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, LED exterior lighting and 18” alloys. The Clarity Fuel Cell will be available in Crystal Black Pearl, White Orchid Pearl and signature Bordeaux Red Metallic exterior paint schemes.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    GM H2 FCV Development – 50 Years and Counting

    The first was called the Electrovan.

    The year 1966saw GM build and test the Electrovan, the world’s first H2 FCV.

    Floyd Wyczalek, 91, was project manager of Electrovan FC development and recalls the 200-person team working on the first technology transfer of fuel cells from President John F. Kennedy’s 1962 challenge to NASA to safely land a man on the moon before the end of the decade.

    1966 GM Electrovan

    [​IMG]
    From 1966 through to today, GM has invested more than $2.5 billion in H2 FCV technology and is among patent leaders along with Honda, its collaborator since 2013 in developing a next-generation system that will be much more powerful but a fraction of the size of the equipment-crammed Electrovan, which had room for only a driver and two passengers.

    Several fuel cell demo programs have helped GM amass more than 3.1 million miles of real-world experience on modern fuel cell systems. On Oct. 3 at the Association of the U.S. Army (AUSA) annual meeting and exhibition in Washington, D.C., GM revealed its latest fuel cell demo, the Chevrolet Colorado ZH2, an off-road midsize pickup that the Army will test in extreme conditions next year.

    Coincidentally, the ZH2 went from contract to completion in about 10 months, the same timing as the Electrovan. It will be the first fuel cell vehicle to wear the GM Hydrotec badge, a familial tie to the Ecotec gasoline engines.

    The Electrovan was strictly a test vehicle to explore hydrogen as an energy source for vehicle propulsion.

    Following the end of the project the Electrovan was stored in a Pontiac, Michigan, warehouse for 31 years before being rediscovered in 2001 and assigned for use in fuel cell displays and loaned to museums when not at home in the GM Heritage Center. Pontiac has been home to the GM global fuel cell business since late 2012.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Toyota Announces 2017 Mirai Pricing

    For the 2017 MY, Mirai offers competitive, flexible pricing options.

    The Mirai H2 FCV combines H2 and O2 to make electricity while emitting nothing but water vapor. It is a locally zero emission vehicle with an EPA estimated driving range of 312 miles, and refuels in less than five minutes.

    The 2017 MSRP remains at $57,500 plus an $865 destination fee.

    Mirai customers may qualify for an $8,000 federal tax credit and $5,000 potential California rebate along with California HOV carpool lane access.

    2017 Toyota Mirai FCV

    [​IMG]
    Inside the futuristic FCV.​

    Qualified Mirai customers will be eligible for the following Mirai trailblazer support program:
    • Trailblazer Lease: $349 per month for 36 months, $2,499 due at signing* with 12,000/year mileage allowance
    • Trailblazer APR Support: 0% for 60 months or 1.9% for 72 months and
    • Trailblazer Purchase Support of $7,500
    Remember the 2016 Toyota Mirai FCV was going for $499 per month/36 month lease with $3649 due at lease signing so there is a significant discount from last year’s intro pricing.

    The new model year brings with it a new Atmospheric Blue color to the current palette of Celestial Black, Elemental Silver and Nautical Blue Mirai color choices.

    Mirai ownership experience remains unchanged with the following features:

    • Three years of free fuel
    • Three years complimentary Safety Connect and Entune, including H2 station finder app
    • Three years of 24/7 customer call support
    • Mirai Complimentary Rental Experience for seven days per year for three years
    ToyotaCare no cost service plan and roadside assistance is enhanced for Mirai and includes:
    • No cost scheduled maintenance for three years, or 35,000 miles, whichever comes first
    • No cost enhanced roadside assistance for three years, regardless of mileage, including expedited towing service and trip interruption reimbursement at a maximum of $500 per day for up to 5 days per incident
    • 8-year/100,000-mile warranty on key fuel cell vehicle components including the FC stack and power control unit; FC hydrogen tanks; hybrid battery pack and ECU; FC air compressor, boost converter and ECU; hybrid control module (power management control module); and hydrogen fueling ECU
    Production and sale of the Mirai is limited and vehicles will be placed with select, eligible California customers. After placing a request, potential Mirai drivers are contacted directly by a Toyota representative to discuss ownership and next steps.

    Mirai customers take delivery from one of the eight authorized California dealers of their choosing. In Southern California, Longo Toyota, Toyota of Orange, Toyota of Santa Monica or Tustin Toyota will take care of Mirai trailblazers. Customers in Northern California will visit Roseville Toyota, San Francisco Toyota, Stevens Creek Toyota or Toyota Sunnyvale.
     
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    [​IMG]

    In celebration of National H2 Day, Hyundai Tucson FCV drivers have accumulated more than 1,500,000 miles on the roads and highways of Northern and Southern California. On a micro basis, the Tucson FCVs have emitted only water vapor and replaced approximately 575 tons of CO2 emissions that would have been emitted by vehicles of similar size and capability driven over the same distance. Hyundai has delivered more than 125 Tucson Fuel Cell crossovers since its introduction as the first mass-produced fuel cell in the U.S. market in 2014.

    Wayne
     
  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Honda Clarity FCV – 366 Mile EPA Range

    The Honda Clarity Fuel Cell sedan just received an EPA driving range rating of 366 miles and fuel economy rating of 68 MPGe combined. This is the highest range rating of any non-combustion engine equipped vehicles including FCV and BEVs in the U.S.

    2017 Honda Clarity

    [​IMG]

    Honda will introduce the new 5-passenger, H2 fueled Clarity Fuel Cell sedan through consumer leasing before the end of the year.

    Honda stated it will lease these vehicles though 12 approved Honda FCV dealerships located in California. The network includes six dealerships in Southern California, five in the Bay Area and one in Sacramento.

    The Honda Clarity Fuel Cell fuel cell stack that is 33 percent more compact than its predecessor with a 60 percent increase in power density compared to the outgoing Honda FCX Clarity. The Clarity Fuel Cell can be refueled in just three to five minutes using 70 MPa refueling stations.

    The Clarity Fuel Cell will be available in Crystal Black Pearl, White Orchid Pearl and signature Bordeaux Red Metallic exterior paint schemes.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Hyundai and its H2 supply partner Air Liquide opened a public H2 refueling station at its European HQ in Offenbach, Germany. With this new urban refueling station, drivers of FCVs can refuel their cars from empty to full in under 5 minutes.

    [​IMG]

    The opening is the result of continuing cooperation between leading industry partners under the umbrella of the Clean Energy Partnership (CEP). The station, build by Air Liquide, marks a further step towards a nationwide hydrogen infrastructure.

    The new H2 stations construction and maintenance was funded by the Ministry with $1.08 million USD Grant.

    The new station’s daily capability of 200 kg of H2 is sufficient to fuel over 30 vehicles a day while reducing GHGs by 80 percent.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2017 Honda Clarity FCV Lease at $369/Month + Free Very Attractive Extras

    At this year’s LA Auto Show, Honda announced a competitive introductory lease price of $369/month for 36 months (plus tax) for the Clarity FCV sedan, which is arriving at dealerships in California before years end. The lease requires $2,499 plus first month's payment at lease signing (not including tax, registration or official fees).

    2017 Honda Clarity FCV

    [​IMG]

    Where it gets very attractive is the full terms. The lease includes an attractive mileage allowance of 20,000 per year, up to $15,000 of hydrogen fuel, up to 21 days of an Avis Luxury Rental in assistance California, and 24/7 roadside.

    Retail leasing will be available to residents who live or work near Honda's network of 12 approved FCV dealerships located in select California markets. This network includes six dealerships in Southern California, five in the Bay Area and one in Sacramento. Honda will further develop its dealer network as consumer friendly hydrogen fueling stations become available.

    The Clarity FCV is EPA rated at 366 miles with an efficiency rating of 68 MPGe (miles per gallon of gasoline-equivalent) combined, giving it the best range rating of any zero-emission vehicle, which includes FCV and BEV, in the U.S.

    Visit Honda Clarity for more information and sign up to become a Clarity Fuel Cell owner.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  12. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    What's that worth? ...perhaps in miles? Thanks.
     
    xcel likes this.
  13. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    xcel likes this.
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    HI Bill:

    Yes, $4 to $5/kg which is the equivalent of about 1-gallon of gasoline on an energy content basis.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  15. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Well-Known Member

    So, is the 200kg daily limit based on time to do the compression? That means that it takes about 45 minutes to "recover" after each fillup. So, the 5 minutes to fill is a bit misleading.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  16. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I don't know. Will research if no one knows for sure...

    Edit: Without looking further, though, it seems fair to take some time to regenerate. What's the process?... "electrolyzing" from the atmosphere? (edit3: forget this) Even if the process were as simple as charging a battery, it would take a bit of time to generate (wind, solar, utility line?) and store 200 kWh or more equivalent energy. Extraction from other sources of hydrogen would likely be slow as well. I think the stated daily limit and regen capabilities are suitable for the current low rate of acceptance in the marketplace. It wouldn't do in the long run if the number of vehicles requiring hydrogen were to grow a lot.

    Anyway, just guessing and I'll look further if there is no response with data. Thanks.

    Edit2: the 200 kWh I mention above is per fillup...

    Edit3: Okay, H2 extraction from water is more likely, though wikipedia lists a whole bunch of other sources of H2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
    xcel likes this.
  17. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Well-Known Member

    200 / 30 = 6.67kg of hydrogen per vehicle. That is a bit more per car than I would have thought.

    So my question is: are they generating the hydrogen on site, and if so, is that what is limiting the station? OR, is the 200kg's of hydrogen stored on site, and it can be refilled once a day? OR, is that the limit of the compressors to get 200kg's of hydrogen up to ~10,000PSI?
     
    BillLin and xcel like this.
  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Neil:

    I am not sure about the others but the H2 at the Torrance refuel site I have visited a number of times is supplied by the Exxon/Mobil H2 pipeline running into the refinery around the corner. It is compressed on site.

    2014 Audi A6 TDI at the Shell H2 Refueling location in Torrance, Calif.

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  19. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Was the camera sitting on the ground for that shot, Wayne ? That shore is a purdy car.
     
    xcel likes this.
  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Southern California Customers Take Delivery of New 2017 Honda Clarity FC Sedan

    Hi All:

    The 5-passenger Clarity FCV with an EPA rated driving range of 366 miles is being leased for $369 a month with $2,868 due at signing. This lease includes a 20,000 mile/yr allowance, $15,000 worth of H2 fuel – H2 goes for approximately $15/kg in Southern Calif., 68 mpg combined equivalent or 68 miles/kg of H2, 21 days of an Avis Luxury Rental in California, 24/7 roadside assistance, and is eligible for California "White Sticker" single occupant HOV access.

    2017 Honda Clarity FCV

    [​IMG]

    Honda has now begun delivery of its third-generation 2017 Honda Clarity FCV at select Honda dealerships across Southern California.

    Retail leasing of the Clarity Fuel Cell is now available through 12 approved Honda dealerships in California including six in Southern California, five in the Bay Area, and one in Sacramento. Honda said they continue to expand their FCV dealer network as public H2 fueling stations expands.

    The first deliveries of the Clarity Fuel Cell occurred at the American Honda Motor Company in Torrance, Calif., where six Clarity Fuel Cell customers were provided keys to their own brand-new Clarity’s.

    The participating Honda Clarity FCV dealerships are Scott Robinson Honda in Torrance, Culver City Honda, Keyes Woodland Hills Honda, Honda of Pasadena, Norm Reeves Honda in Cerritos, and Norm Reeves Honda in Irvine.

    The first six customers of the 2017 Clarity Fuel Cell are previous owners of Honda's second-generation fuel cell vehicle, the Clarity FCX.

    • Jon Spallino, Private Securities Investor and world's first FCV individual customer with the 2005 FCX; this is his third Honda FCV
    • Jack Cusick, Assistant Principal of Newport Harbor High School
    • Jackie Keller, Founder of NutriFit, healthy meal services
    • Jim Salomon, President at Questar Construction
    • Karen Thorp, Deputy District Attorney for the County of Los Angeles
    • Terry Tamminen, CEO of the Leonardo DiCaprio Foundation
    Customers interested can visit 2017 Honda Clarity FCV, where they can receive more information and sign up for the opportunity to become a Clarity FCV customer.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.

Share This Page