CleanMPG First Drive Review of the 2013 VW Jetta Hybrid

Discussion in 'Reviews' started by xcel, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi RedylC94:

    The 1.4L TFSI in the Jetta Hybrid is pretty darn quick at 8.6 seconds to 60. The 2.0L TDI in the same is a 9.1 second car.

    Wayne
     
  2. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    why am I not seeing signatures in this thread?
     
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Nathan:

    The review forum threads are structured differently.

    Wayne
     
  4. SI_Prius

    SI_Prius Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I know you know a lot more than I do, but I just can't take your statement for the truth, no mater how many times you write it down.

    A little googling around:
    Ford Focus diesel (didn't mention displacement but it can only be between 1.6 and 2.0): 0.5 - 1 l/h
    BMW M3: 1.3 - 1.5 l/h
    Seat Leon 2.0 TDI 170HP: 0,8-1,5 l/h
    2.0 TDI: 0.6 l/h
    BMW 118d FL all consumers off 0.5l/h, all on 1.6l/h, lights an heating on 0.7l/h
    1.8 TSI: 0.7 - 0.8 l/h
    Seat Leon Cupra4 2.8 V6: 0.9 l/h

    Sorry for all the European models, I was searching on German forums.

    I just can't see a big difference, not in engine displacement, not the engine type. A general tendency is the car will consume between 0.5 - 1 l/h at idle. Looking at your own reviews you get an unbelievable consumption even with gasoline cars (over 60 mpg), ask your self what that number represents in consumption per hour at that slow testing speeds (30 mph?). To do the math for you that number means that at your reviews you are achieving less than 2 l/h and you are using a big portion of that energy for wind, rolling resistance and drive train loss.

    Again I'm not saying that diesel and petrol car consume the same at idle, I'm just saying that your 25 to 30% is way off, it's more like 70 to 80%.
     
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi SI Prius:

    A turbo diesel like the 2.0L TDI will consume ~ .3 Liter/hr at idle. They can run as lean as 80:1 in that condition and continue to run.

    A 1.8L gasoline engine in a Corolla will consume .25 Gallon/hr at idle. It runs at Stoich or very close to it at all times which is 14.7:1

    Wayne
     
  6. SI_Prius

    SI_Prius Well-Known Member

    .3 l/hr for 2.0 TDI is probably an absolute minimum that I can not find anywhere on the internet (lowest .4 l/h)
    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=339179
    http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/2-0-...im-leerlauf-mit-neuem-ki-anders-t3546317.html
    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=315164
    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=215202&page=27
    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=306036

    And from your own site, Skyactiv-g - .64 l/h:
    http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/printthread.php?t=42433&pp=10&page=5
    And a user from your site for Corolla 1.8 automatic - .71 l/h:
    http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=268279&postcount=30

    Maybe in the end we will settle down on 50% to 60% :)

    The alternator and electrical consumers are different from car to car not engine to engine, electric vs hydraulic power steering may also have an effect, gearbox maybe also, DRL ...
     
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi SI Prius:

    Look up diesel vs. engine idle and you will find your answer.

    The first time we saw this "phenomena" was with the 2.2L iCDTi in the Civic Diesel about 6 years ago. IIRC, it was idling at .3 L/hr as well.

    A Corolla 1.8L consumes about .25 gph at idle. You can see this w/ a ScanGauge attached.

    Recently I saw the 2.5L SKYACTIV-G in the mazda6 at ~ 0.19 gph at idle. Impressive for a larger displacement gasoline engine.

    IHTHs?

    Wayne
     
  8. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    My Civic also uses .25 gph at idle in neutral.
     
  9. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    My TDI is around 0.6l/h. Maybe running less lean with more EGR to keep NOx under control.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013
  10. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    The difference in fuel consumption won't be in the ratio of 14.7:80, though, because the diesel is taking in roughly three times the quantity of air per revolution at idle, assuming equal displacement, etc..
     
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi RedylC94:

    There is the 10 percent greater Carbon content. Beyond that, you have A/F ratios and thermodynamic efficiency to explain the 1/3 consumption of a gasoline engine. I do not know what else explains it as I have not looked it up?

    Wayne
     
  12. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    That's correct, assuming "thermodynamic efficiency" covers differences in compression ratio and throttling losses.

    I was only saying that looking only at idling A/F ratios might give one an exaggerated notion of the difference in consumption, because, although the diesel needs a lot less fuel per unit air, it also needs more air.
     
  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Here is the Speed vs. Fuel Economy chart for the 2013 Volkswagen Jetta Hybrid SEL Premium plus conclusions.

    The items of note include is that the actual 60 mph RPM is 1,720 and the speedometer reads over by 1 mph at the same 60 mph. However the Cruise Control when set at 50, 55, 60, 65 and 70 mph is dead on to the GPS.

    [​IMG]

    The 48 mpg crossover using linear analysis between 60 and 65 mph is a mere 62.45 mph. While not as eye opening as the C-MAX tested earlier this year, the VW Jetta Hybrid earns its 48 mpg rating at one of the lowest speeds we have seen yet. A lot of this has to do with the offset as the calculation for actual vs. displayed showed a rather high .94 offset. If I would have driven another 50-miles, I suspect this would not have been as high but in any case, Jetta Hybrid owners doing a lot of highway are probably going to be disappointed.

    On the other hand, when driving with traffic (50 to 65 mph) and A/C over a 103 mile distance between San Diego and LAX on the I-5/I-405, it provided a relatively healthy 58.8 mpg (56.0 mpgUS actual) and I was not really trying by comparison to the 68.3 mpgUS result on the LAX to San Diego measured fuel economy drive last week. If this were the base with the 16 inch alloys, add another 1 mpg or so to all of the results above and below.

    Is it a Guinness World Record capable car? Yes but it will not be as easy as I had first hoped.

    [​IMG]
    San Diego to LAX with A/C for 103 miles - 58.8 mpg displayed (56.0 mpgUS actual).​

    For the week, it barely broke EPA highway which is again, not what we have experienced in the past with some of the other vehicles we have recently tested. Those being the 2013 VW Passat TDI with the 6-speed stick and the fully loaded 2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid which easily smashed their EPA numbers no matter the city/highway mix.

    [​IMG]
    52.0 mpg (49.5 mpgUS actual) over 333 miles including 40% city/60% highway with tens of short hops and using A/C 50% of the time.​

    Other items of note:

    Spongy brakes in the initial 2 inches of movement through the regen section.

    Throttle tip to actual movement in with the ICE-Off feels delayed or labored when on the electric motor for some reason?

    Straight-line performance was excellent with the ICE running as in an average of 8.8 seconds to 60 mph. When in EV mode from a standstill, add .5 seconds to that result.

    Great Ride, Handling, On-center and Road Feel typical of all VW’s we have driven. I wish other manufacturers would copy VW’s solution because it is that good.

    It was not as quiet as the Passat TDI when underway but at slower speeds with the ICE shut down, silence is indeed golden.

    The 5 inch screen NAVI is not only to small, the GPS software (TomTom maybe???) is terrible. The depiction of the road behind is a wide light blue stripe that takes over too much real estate for quick glance to know where you were going. It simply did not feel as well sorted out as other manufacturers offerings. Note to VW, go speak with Garmin. On the plus side, zooming in and out was as easy as turning the central knob although it did not have a mimic showing how that feature worked.

    The Fender Audio in the SEL Premium sounded really good at slower speeds but the road noise at higher speeds took away from its excellent audio quality.

    Bluetooth and Bluetooth streaming worked well after 10-minutes of trying to pair the phone. VWs are always a little cumbersome to do this without the manual but once completed, it worked like a charm all week.

    The seat comfort was an 8 of 10 as the leather and cushioning beneath felt slightly hard. The long lower seat cushions made up for this. I do wish the window sill was of the slush molded soft touch material variety as it was a little hard on my elbow. Most cars nowadays still are.

    The Proximity key for the push button start worked great but the proximity key doors were troublesome all week. Opening the driver’s side door was not a problem but I had a lot of trouble locking them. In other words, I should have read the manual ;)

    It is a great hybrid effort but the 42/48 mpgUS city/highway EPA numbers are very aggressive for what it provided me over the week in Southern California. In addition, with an initial price of $24,995 + D&H, it is too close to the 2013 VW Passat TDI with a stick and Hyundai Sonata Hybrid at $26,295 and $25,650 (not incl. D&H) respectively to be a must have consideration. Those other two offer more room and quieter cabins albeit neither would be able to take on the Jetta Hybrid on an Autocross course. The Jetta Hybrid with the GLI rear end is simply to competent at the limits over the Passat and way beyond that of the Sonata.

    The Jetta Hybrid SEL Premium as tested at $32,210 including D&H is in my humble option simply too expensive even though the powered sunroof, steerable HIDs and Fender Audio are each class acts in their own right. A 5 inch display with a somewhat poor NAVI solution on a > $30K car did not sit well and neither did the middling 65 to 70 mpg results at the limits and 50 mpg result when just driving. Too many far less expensive non-hybrid vehicles have provided us those kinds of results and while not as “fun” to drive, are far less onerous on ones pocketbook. Consider instead the larger 2013/2014 VW Passat TDI as I believe you will incur higher overall satisfaction with that choice over the longer term.

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  14. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    and it requires premium, which is another 50 cents per gallon on the corner by my house.
     

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