Hummer Greener Than Prius Urban Myth Exploded

Discussion in 'Toyota' started by Chuck, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Did you really think the Hummer was green? Blow-by-blow account of why Prius is clearly greener

    [xfloat=right][/xfloat]Bengt Halvorson - The Car Connection - April 17, 2007

    Related Slate Article, The Hummer vs. the Prius, Pacific Institute Study (PDF),
    The Guardian Dismisses Dust to Dust as Bad Science

    Over the past year, there has been an explosion of stories raising questions about the real environmental cost of hybrids.

    One of the most misleading ones, which has been spread by countless blogs over the past several weeks, and cited without verification by several sources that appear reputable, looks to have originated in a story last November in England's Daily Mail, a right-leaning, British tabloid paper, which bore the gleefully spiteful title 'Toyota factory turns landscape to arid wilderness.' An editorial, published last month in a newspaper for a small state university on the East Coast, helped bring this misleading report a new life.

    But it isn't a Toyota factory at all. The automaker has, in fact, only been purchasing significant amounts of nickel from the Sudbury , Ontario , Inco mine for its batteries in recent years, while the environmental disaster the headline is referring to largely occurred more than thirty years ago.

    And that ore is at the core of a semi-urban legend that leads to dumb headlines like "HUMMER Greener than Prius," and others we've seen recently. … [rm][/rm]
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
  2. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Re: Hummer Green Than Prius Urban Myth Exploded

    I can't tell you how many times in the last couple of months this has appeared in various forums. In Prius Chat alone, at least one newbie daily mentions Spinella's Dust to Dust propaganda and the other article about the Sudbury nickel "toxic dump". Add to that the electronic media: it's been mentioned on the Rush Limbaugh and Lars Larson talk shows to name a few.

    These articles are what they seem - the Prius is made to seem dirtier by perverted data.

    Please take the link to the original article and post it to refute the disinformation.
  3. Skwyre7

    Skwyre7 Well-Known Member

    It's already a sticky over on PC. I must say it was a nice thing to read on my lunch break. :)
  4. Sledge

    Sledge I like owls with captions

    CNW's lies strike again :rolleyes:
  5. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    The rebuttal article failed to mention the CNW assertion a Hummer lasts 300,000 miles while the Prius lasts only 100,000, but they have so much other evidence to call out Spinella, it's not critical.
  6. locutus

    locutus MPG Centurion

    Great find! Just today over lunch, somehow (;)) the discussion got around to cars and FE, and one of my coworkers brought up that ..."study". I did what I could to refute it on the spot (the lifetime assumption, which was promptly backed up by another coworker :)). It's still in the public consciousness though.
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    ___I can add only one other thing and it’s a good one.

    ___Prius sales for the month of March 2007 were up 133% at 19,156 units on a DSR based basis vs. the same month last year. H2/H3 sales? Down 23.7% at just 4,847 units for their entire lineup vs. the same last year. I think we know the public is a lot smarter then the spin-doctors trying to keep us hooked up to the junkie ;)

    ___Good Luck

  8. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    Just had a laugh thinking about whatever guy goes in to buy a Hummer because he wants to save the environment!

  9. mparrish

    mparrish Rosie the Riveter Redux

    "It's an Oil Industry lie"

    One of the tactics of those who have a financial interest in thwarting fuel economy is to muddy the waters. There is no need to "prove" a Hummer is greener. Just throw it out there with some questionable assumptions & methodologies. The good guys will fight back by diving into the weeds, and the general public throws up its hands and thinks "who to believe? the truth is probably somewhere in the middle." That's a partial victory for the bad guys.

    I have the ability as needed to dive into the weeds and prove the study is bogus. But I usually don't, at least not at first. I usually simply say "it's a lie by people who want to make money selling gas". Clear & simple. It unmuddies the waters as well as anything can.

    Then I jump in the weeds if somebody wants to go there.
  10. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Banned

    But that seems to imply that there's a hummer owner who cares about the environment! :rolleyes: ;) :D

    Frankly, I'm glad that the CNW debunking is finally getting out there. There've been too many people who someone get a hold of that and think they've got a bullet to use to shoot down the "Why you should have a hybrid" arguement.
  11. PapaMile

    PapaMile Drive like you ride a bike

    Yes, I have hesitated a lot in march. My driveway was not wide enough for the Hummer. So I bought this inspid hybrid. ;)

    I understand that the Hummer is a symbol but there is worst (Canadian figure HW):
    Hummer :25mpg
    GMC Yukon : 17
    Dodge Durango : 15


    edit: I must admit, I had hesitated beween the regular Civic and the hybrid because of the arguments mentionned in the text.
  12. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    San Francisco Chronicle to the rescue...

    Finally this is hitting some mainstream press.

    The Hummer vs. the Prius

  13. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    That was a slam dunk!
  14. madman

    madman Well-Known Member

    I don't believe a word of it! I must trade in my prius for a hummer. CNW says it will cost me less to use over the next 35 can i dispute those facts. Now I can drive 75mph everywhere I go and know that I am saving the planet every time I fill up. YAY!!! (does anyone know where I can get a second job to pay for the fuel? I'm sure the savings will show up eventually)
  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dan:

    ___That one is going to the home page today :D

    ___Good Luck

  16. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    I can't tell you how many newbies have unintentionally or intentionally mentioned Spinella's junk science.
  17. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    Check today's posts.... I have a great idea for an illustration for the article ;)

  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Dan:

    ___You want to post it? I have to get ready for work but Chuck should be able to guide you through the details in less then 5 minutes … I have lots of nice H2 and Prius pics in the Gallery to choose from so make sure your illustration is of a CleanMPG quality ;) I remember an illustration of a Prius and a large something (H2) side by sides at a pump island during the gas fill with some cute commentary. I think Chuck threw that one in the gallery last year? Or maybe I did ;)

    ___Good Luck

  19. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

  20. haole

    haole Member

    I would start debunking it with one thing and one thing only.

    Environmental impact comparisons shouldn't be given in dollars.

    Environmental impact is physical thing, not a financial thing.

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