Lowest electric bill ever.

Discussion in 'Emissions' started by southerncannuck, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    So , do LED's run a lot cooler than incandescent or CFL bulbs ?
     
  2. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    Power-to-light they're in the same ballpark as CFL's - cool to the touch. Both are miles better than incandescent. ~10w for the same light output as a 60W incandescent - the other 50W turn into heat.
     
  3. Harold

    Harold Well-Known Member

    Andrew- How do you like the heat pump water heater. Is it in the basement and are they noisy? H
     
  4. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    I have no basement but it is out in the back utility room (unconditioned). The old heater was in a hallway closet but I'm GLAD I did the work to move it because it is noisy.

    I can't complain. It's a GE unit. It has multiple operating modes: heat pump only, resistance heat only, "smart" switching between the two based on load, and High Demand which uses both.

    It puts out a lot of cold air as it runs. I have a deep freezer in the same room so they help each other out. (kind of) My hot water is nearly free in summer, my freezer is nearly free in winter.

    I don't know what effect it has on power consumption because it's 220V and I have no gauge to read that. I put it in shortly after upgrading the central air heat pump so that overwhelmed any gain this would have. I believe it is more efficient based on my experience with heat pump vs resistance central heating (BIG difference there!).
     
  5. Harold

    Harold Well-Known Member

    Thanks Andrew. It must be a help on your utility bill. I only have a basement, so probably it is not practical. I would really like one, but where to put it? I suppose I could build a insulated sound proof room in the basement too contain it with a vent outside. H
     
  6. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    Latest table. Note that the household reduced from 5 to 4 during 2/2008.

    Column1Column2Column3Column4Column5Column6Column7Column8Column9Column10Column11Column12Column13Column14Column15Column16
    20072008+/-2009+/-2010+/-2011+/-2012+/-2013+/-
    129.6829.40-0.2825.07-4.3324.14-0.9321.38-2.7618.10-3.2815.14-2.97
    233.2126.52-6.7023.50-3.0222.06-1.4419.84-2.2317.14-2.7013.55-3.59
    326.5825.29-1.2922.63-2.6720.03-2.5919.83-0.2016.03-3.8013.52-2.52
    430.3723.32-7.0519.93-3.3919.24-0.6917.40-1.8415.13-2.2711.63-3.50
    525.9020.83-5.0718.79-2.0418.16-0.6417.24-0.9113.77-3.4711.97-1.81
    631.3026.30-5.0021.79-4.5121.39-0.4120.03-1.3517.06-2.9715.48-1.58
    734.0328.63-5.4025.03-3.6027.072.0428.581.5121.07-7.5118.83-2.23
    832.6522.16-10.4919.59-2.5624.584.9823.94-0.6417.13-6.8015.82-1.32
    932.6321.76-10.8721.38-0.3820.14-1.2418.62-1.5214.09-4.5312.93-1.17
    1025.9022.07-3.8321.72-0.3419.17-2.5518.42-0.7513.75-4.6712.45-1.30
    1131.5724.18-7.3823.53-0.6521.84-1.6920.10-1.7415.42-4.6814.39-1.03
    1234.3026.40-7.9023.03-3.3722.37-0.6620.45-1.9117.16-3.3016.06-1.10


    [​IMG]

    2013 is over. Happy new year!

    December 2013 (33 days to 1/8/2013) 530kWh (16.06kWh/d) compared to 549kWh over 32 days (17.16Wh/d) in 2012.
    Annualized mean is now 14.34kWh/d, or 597.4W constant equivalent.
    (3/2009 24.15kWh) 40.63% reduction, dropping another 0.09kWh/d. The 40% reduction was again helped by my wife's son not being here as much.

    Theoretical Leaf advanced a little more to 30.45 miles, about 9.85 miles of the 20.8 miles home, on it's way up a long 55mph slope. Based on my 4-commute week less holidays and vacation it's 56.01miles.

    70.75% of use was off-peak (8pm-7am + weekends and holidays), the highest again, presumably helped by Christmas and New Year's day. We're now into expensive months, and TOU supply increased our bill by $2.45, total savings from 3/2013, still $34.44. Use in the calendar months of January and February will be more expensive than the fixed rate, maybe by about $9.75 overall based on last year's use.

    The improvements are now only a little over 1kWh per day, and I wonder how long it can continue, but as long as I can find more I'll be happy. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  7. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Well bit the bullet as they say and started taking a serious look at using LED's in select situations in my business. Swapped out four 15W CFL's for 9.5 W LEDs this week and according to the online calculators I should save about $8 a month. At that rate the payoff should be just over eight months. I have recessed lighting in my office and three of the seven lights are above my desk and they are on roughly seventy hours a week. I have a night light for the two mouser's when we are closed and that one light is on around 107 hours a week. The other four recessed lights in my office are rarely on more than three or four hours a year so not worth changing out the CFL's for LED's.

    The LED Cree 9.5W spots were $19.50 and Home Depot had the Cree 9.5W soft white bulbs on sale for $8.95 so well worth buying one for the night light.
     
  8. DaveJ

    DaveJ Well-Known Member

    I can't come up with $8 a month. Do you have a link to the calculator? Also, what is your elec. cost per KWH ?



    Best I can come up with is about $1.90 a month if on 24/7 365 yr.
    ( If I am correct)
     
  9. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    I read the wrong line on the chart thanks for pointing it out.

    Here is cost-calculatorl I used.

    The three recessed lights are saving me $18.06
    The night light $9.03

    $27.09 total for the year. $2.26 a month at .11 per KWH

    Or a two and a half year payback for all four.

    The night light is one year pay back.
     
  10. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    Hmm. (4 x 5.5W x 70h/wk x (365.25/7)wk/yr /(12mo/yr)) /(1000W/kW) = 6.696kWh/mo.
    So, unless the cost comes from the bulbs it doesn't make any sense. Oh, he'll save a little bit more A/C in summer since he's reducing consumption by 22W.
     
  11. vangonebuy

    vangonebuy Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]

    2013 is over and my results are as expected.
    I climbed in elec usage. 6161kwh total for the year. Up 91 kwh.
    August, I hit a new average daily high.
    But, haven't been idle.

    Daughter is off to college.
    Removed the last of the crt monitors.
    Added 2 more LED room lights.
    I'm trying to use up the old bulbs first. (CFLs and incandescents.)

    A big change was my 9 year old Kenmore refrig failed. :mad:
    It's been slowly giving me trouble, Not keeping freezer cold, on and off since summertime.
    After throwing parts at it. Concluded that the compressor had bad spots in its motor.
    $500+ for part +labor......Nah. Time To Go.
    Picked up an new refrig just before Thanksgiving.

    My average daily usage has been falling since.
    Over 1kw less.
    This is my lowest Nov/Dec, 14.98Kwh daily average since 2005.
    January is starting low also.
     
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    HI All:

    While I do not have a chart for you to see (I might scan the bills tonight for that purpose) but my electricity bill for last month was $25 and my gas bill through the 15th which I was really worried about given the far below 0 degree temperatures was just $101.00.

    Pretty happy about that actually. I switched electricity providers a few months back as the local Utility's service charge was $30 before any usage charges. Now my entire bill is less than that.

    Wayne
     
  13. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Well just checked my account at the electric company, gotta love smart meters. It is looking like the three LED spots and the night light for the mousers are having a small effect on my electric bill. Based on my Sunday electric usage in the business I'm saving 1.7KwH per day. We're not open on Sundays so the base line is what I'm looking at. Since replacing the CFL's with LED's there is a definite drop. That by the way is even with the frigid temperatures we had which of course had the furnace kicking on if we were here or not. It might be a gas furnace but it still has an electric blower motor that needs to run. The 6W LED night light is on all day Sunday and three lights above my desk are on at the most two to three hours while I'm in there on Sunday catching up on work.

    Needless to say a least with these four bulbs, a less than one year payback was well worth the change over. As with four other remaining CFL's that could be replaced with LED's I'll be replacing them over the next few years as they burn out, but not before. I have four additional CFl's in my office that I rarely turn on and due to the costs of LED's they will be staying CFL's.
     
  14. vangonebuy

    vangonebuy Well-Known Member

    I ran a test 10 minutes on:
    Incandescent Phillips 65 watt.________370 degrees max temp
    FEIT BR40 17watt._________________120 degrees max temp
    Using a Fluke IR thermometer.



    4 replaced par40 downlights at 65 watt. Angled cathedral ceiling.
    These are 100watt equal bulbs. But they don't come close in reality.


    These bulbs were replaced for 2 reason. Energy savings and to reduce ice melt damming on my roof and downspouts. I get some killer icicles from the bulbs melting the roof snow. Hoping this helps.



    I was waiting for Cree to come out with a par40 bulb...... But they are too slow to market.
    Next time Cree. In about 22 years...;)
     
  15. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    One of the guys on another board put this nifty Excel spreed sheet together to compare cost vs savings of light bulbs as in incandescent, CFL and LED's

    [​IMG]

    Click link to download spreadsheet
    Bulb Comparison Zip
     
  16. vangonebuy

    vangonebuy Well-Known Member

    The chart is a good starting point. But leaves out much.

    I now have 46 LED lights. Because of high electric rates.
    Each one was picked to match or improve the lighting already in place.
    Color Temp, Lumens and diffusion are extremely important.

    The chart indicates a 300 lumen LED replacement for a 60 watt candelabra bulb.
    You will not be satisfied with that. 300 lumens = approx 30 watts incandescent.
    I have yet to find a good pleasing replacement for candelabra lights.
    Incandescent is still the best choice for this type locations for me.

    Indoor 65 flood is indicated as a 13 watt replacement LED.
    Cree CR6 uses only 9.5 watt and is a great light. I also have 17watt LED's replacing other 65watt bulbs.

    I haven't seen a great LED to replace a 100watt "A" style bulb.Yet!

    40 watt incandescent appliance bulb......Tough call.
    Cree 40 works well in the fridge. And will keep your fridge cooler.
    But it wont last in the oven. Didnt fit in my range hood.

    You really need to try the bulbs to judge what is best.
    And what is pleasing to the eye in that location.
    Color temperature of 2700K is nice warm light.
    But some want cooler temp. lighting in their kitchen or bath.

    I will eventually replace all CFL's with LED's.
    Start with the most used lights in the house. That will save the most.
     
  17. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    vangonebuy, your right it is a nice starting point but you can input all your own information including the lumens.
     
  18. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    ... Especially start with locations where the light is frequently on for short periods, such as a bathroom. CFLs do not last many hours with frequent cycling. My brother demonstrated a CFL had a shorter life than an incandescent in a family bathroom (although the CFL may have had a lower overall cost per lumen-hour).
     
  19. vangonebuy

    vangonebuy Well-Known Member

    Well don't I have egg on my face. 100watt = A type LED
    Look what Cree just released. http://www.creebulb.com/Products/Standard_A-Type/100_Watt_Replacement_Soft_White_LED_Bulb

    ALS- you are correct. This is a good spreadsheet for individuals personal reference.
    Did't think of that.

    RedylC94 - I wouldn't use CFL in short run locations more because of slow warm up.
    But I did burn out a bunch of CFL floodlights under 2000 hours with lights in the kitchen.
    I contacted FEIT. But, they never responded.

    I have a bunch of used CFL's. Don't think I' ll ever use them up now.
    Maybe I can donate them.
     
  20. alvaro84

    alvaro84 Homura-chan's selfishness

    Oh, I almost forgot this topic exists...

    Lately I learned another way of wearing down CFLs - I accidentally broke one while I tried to remove it to use it somewhere else. The 20W CFL's replacement became a 10-watt, 800 lumen LED bulb, which is not omnidirectional, but works well in that place and position. That Cree one you linked looks so nice... I hope to see bulbs like that in a few years here too. At a reasonable price.

    But our biggest hogs are not the lights (most of them replaced with LEDs and CFLs by now), I'd say they're negligible. The most power hungry :D are:
    - Heating. Just 3 oil-filled radiators, they're simple as a stone axe, they should be durable, shouldn't they? One is still dying on me, it started to drip oil, meh. At least they're cheaper than about any other heating equipment.
    - Hot (ok, it's lukewarm to warm :D) water. It used to be the biggest consumer before the heating. Now it's down to 30-40kWh/month in the summer (it was the only consumer on the 'timed' meter before the heating/cooking/dehumidifying), unknown (but much more) in the winter.
    - Cooking/baking. We buy no processed food, so it's essential. Since summer we have an induction heater, and we bought an electric oven this winter too. They're gradually replacing the old cylinder gas set. There are still a few drops in the cylinder, but now we rarely use it.
    - A dehumidifier. Used when it's too cold to keep the windows open, but it isn't cold enough for the humid outside air to significantly warm up when let in. Like this winter. Almost no frost, but often foggy and rainy, so venting the house didn't help to dry it at all. Add a failing washing machine which only dries some clothes on a whim, and you'll have to do something.
    - Two desktop PCs, many hours per day. At the age of 7 years they're not too gentle on power (still better than their predecessors). Replacement: when one dies or something.

    I'm curious about the future changes in our energy consumption. Finally I have a bill based on a year with electric heating (September to September data), and the yearly consumption was 4992kWh. Add 7 pieces of 11.5kg gas cylinders (about 138kWh each, AFAIK), which makes 5958kWh total energy input. Apart from the Sun shining in and the waste wood I sometimes cook on outside for fun - not at winter.

    The changes: January to January it's 5077.8kWh and 4 cylinders, making 5630kWh, 328kWh less than September to September. Most of the improvement is due to the unusually mild winter, even though we held the temperature of the attic over 18°C|64.4°F most of the time this year (we often went below that last winter, but 18-19 feels much better than 17).

    At least there's no air conditioning here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014

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