Scion xB for scope-hauling mileage?

Discussion in 'Toyota' started by SentraSE-R, Jan 27, 2009.

  1. Blackbelt

    Blackbelt Well-Known Member

    Being that i own both an xB and a Caliber, i can tell you that the Scion has a LOT more vertical space. The Caliber does hold longer objects, especially with the front passenger seat folded forward, but the box has a higher roofline. Neither one is as good a cargo hauler as my Pt Cruiser was, but the Scion does come close, while getting 12MPG better economy.
  2. The Fridge

    The Fridge Well-Known Member

    2005 xB.
    Looking at my mileage logs, my xB would be sitting closer to 37.5 mpg if not for 3 reasons:
    -2 bad tanks before I knew anything about hypermilng,
    -another not-great tank when I made a 2-hour trip on mountain dirt roads
    -some unseasonably frigid weather absolutely murdering one tank and hurting two others.

    The vehicle is geared low and when I have to go highway speeds mpg suffers.
    If I can go on level roads and hit every other light green in the ideal 35 to 40 MPH speed zones, I'd be turning in low 40's consistently.
    Unfortunately, I hit the highway occasionally and have a chunk of uphill/downhill to contend with.

    One of my good legs was 11.8 miles/44.8 mpg and this over uphill and level roads with no real downhill.

    When I hit the downhill legs, I can get over 40 mpg without trying hard.
    This is in-town driving, Fort Collins is a 110k population with stoplights every mile on the best roads and every few blocks on the worst.
  3. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    The XB might be your best bet(eyeball a Mazda 5 also)-the others either can't fit that bulky an item, or they are gas hogs.

    The Mazda 5 might work for you. With the seats down it should be able to handle you big item. It isn't as FE as a XB of course- no free lunch.

  4. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    It's going to be a Scion xB. I just don't know which one. It'll depend on whether the dealership is ready to deal. The one I'm looking at is an 06 MT with <32,000 miles, in good condition, and a Toyota Certified Used Vehicle. KBB trade-in value is $9400. Private party Blue Book is $11,260. Blue Book retail is $14,110. Dealer has a $13,998 price on it. Tax is 7.75% in my county. I'm going to start at $10,000, which is roughly $11,000 out the door with license and taxes. That only gives the dealership a $300 profit, if you figure the TCUV value is at least $300. Realistically, it's probably going to want more of a profit, and TCUV may be worth more. My upper limit will be about $10,400, or $11,400 out the door. There are private party xBs for $7900-8400, but with higher mileage in the 80,000 mile category.

    I had time to research the dealership, which is not encouraging. It has about three times the complaints of its competition, and paid out millions to customers who overpaid more than advertised prices. On the good side, it's the third largest volume dealer on the west coast, so I'm not likely to get stuck with a dealer bankruptcy.
  5. Kinder

    Kinder Well-Known Member

    Good luck with the dealer. That sticker price of $13998 is crazy--In two weeks I will have owned my 06 MT for a full 3 years and the MSRP was right around $14250. I would have thought those kinds of used prices had gone away after the price of gas deflated. Maybe the positive flip side to the high resale in the Bay area is that there are also plenty of xBs for sale.
  6. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    The salesman was off the past two days, and I'm leaving town tomorrow for the weekend. I'll negotiate next week, if the xB is still unsold. Thanks for the info on the MSRP, Kinder. xBs seem to hold their price well in the Bay Area. Most cars lose $3000-4000 in depreciation the minute you drive them off the lot.
  7. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    Well, my purchase will be delayed a month, until I have enough money to buy the Scion outright. I don't want to have to deal with financing. Meanwhile the dealership may or may not move the car I'm looking at. There are plenty of others available, with similar mileage and prices. If the xB at the local dealership is still available in a month, I suspect they'll be happy to deal to get it off their lot.
  8. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    SentraSE-R- You are right-stick to your guns price wise. Another great deal will always come along if you are patient (especially in this terrible economy). I've bought/sold about 60 cars/motorcycles- there is always another deal if your patient and keep looking.With our current economy high dollar used items that are usually financed are probably going to drop in price. Paying cash isn't a plus for a dealer, but selling anything in this economy is!

  9. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    Another choice has entered the picture. It's the new $13,990 Nissan Cube, with 6 speed MT, and Nissan's 1.8L engine making 122 hp. The same powertrain in the Nissan Versa gets 26/31 city/highway mileage, which is nominally better than the 2006 Scion xB with 5MT. If the Cube doesn't turn 3000 rpm at 60 mph like the Scion does, it's likely going to do far better as a long haul car for 1000 mile drives. It's 20" shorter than the xB, and the seats don't fold flat. I hope it's large enough to carry my scope inside. I don't expect the 28" W X 29" D X32" H box to be a problem. With the Cube being as short as a Mini, my 5' stepladder and truss poles and loading ramps may be too long to fit inside. I hope I don't have to strap them on a Thule rack.
  10. MateriaPanama

    MateriaPanama Well-Known Member

    the cube seems really cool, and in every way except actual size seems a bit better, plus you get a brand new car, if you dont mind spending the extra cash and it actually fits what you need it to, it could work really well, although i am curious as to their mpg comparison when each is hypermiled, the 1nz-fe seems to have a lot of potential
    i do also suspect demand will be high, and nissan is offering reservations on the car so if you want to get your hands on one soon you might want to decide quickly, but i might be terribly wrong
  11. kingcommute

    kingcommute Hypermiling Apprentice

    what about the Suzuki SX4? Nobody has mentioned them yet......I don't know much about them though. Kind of a tall wagon design. - Not sure about fuel economy though - with the AWD it would probably be low.
  12. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    I'm taking my wife for a drive down auto row tonight. We'll top at every dealership and check out all the hatchbacks to see if anything else with decent mileage capable of carrying my 27"W X 28"D X 32"H box is out there. The Suzuki SX4 is only rated 22/29 EPA, about the same as my Nissan.

    I've pretty much ruled out the Cube and Soul. They're going to cost $5,000 more out the door, and neither company has put out dimensions. I'll have to wait until May before I can decide I don't want one.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
  13. kingcommute

    kingcommute Hypermiling Apprentice

    have you considered an older CRV or rav4 with a manual transmission? There might be some possibilities there. Any wagons that might fit the bill? Used of course to fit in your price range - what about a Forester - those can be had with a MT. My mom has one with an AT, and she can get about 27mpg in mixed driving....the manual would have to be better.
  14. kingcommute

    kingcommute Hypermiling Apprentice

    Last edited: Mar 11, 2009
  15. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    The RAV-4 is 21/27 EPA mileage. It suffers from Toyota's upsizing philosophy that gave us the 2G Scion xB with the 2.4 L engine to replace the FE 1.5. The EPA website doesn't show the RAV-4 offered with a MT.

    The CR-V is worse, at 20/26 EPA, and it doesn't have a MT, either. The Element is worse than that, with 19/23 EPA estimates - worse than my hot rod car. Both of them have Honda's 2.4 L engine, so they're not FE cars by design.

    Your search yielded a lot of Scions that I hadn't seen before. I'll have to frequent the Autotrader site more often. Thanks.
  16. kingcommute

    kingcommute Hypermiling Apprentice

    No problemo - I know for sure that some of the older CRV's and Rav4's were offered with MTs I've seen 'em with me own eyes, I have. arrrr. Aye - Autotrader be the best car search engine on these seven seas.....

    Glad it was useful for you, happy hunting.
  17. Kacey Green

    Kacey Green Well-Known Member

    I've driven them, well the CR-Vs anyway, both are fine choices.
  18. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    I went to the dealership and made them an offer on the xB that I looked at back in January. They turned me down. I figured $1000 over KBB wholesale price, which was $500 under private party blue book, and $1500 under dealer blue book. Maybe they paid more than wholesale for trade-in or at auction. Maybe they wanted more profit.

    Now I'll take my time looking for used Scions, and maybe wait until Summer, after the Kia Soul and Nissan Cube are out.
  19. Kacey Green

    Kacey Green Well-Known Member

    What was the difference between what you were asking and what they'd priced the vehicle at?
  20. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    The difference between their asking price and what I offered was $3600.

    KBB wholesale was $9400 in January. It's $9000 now
    KBB private party price is $10,900
    KBB retail price is $13795
    Dealership is asking $13988. The car is Toyota Certified
    I offered $10,400

    I took the prices above in my mind to the negotiations, but made a couple of errors. I didn't notice the car had a sun roof, so I should have added $200 to my estimated values for that, and I figured the Toyota Certified warranty was only worth $300.

    The dealership apparently assumes excellent condition. I consider the car in good condition, as it has some obvious paint scratches on both sides.

    Unrealistic buyer expectations notwithstanding, I know I was pushing their bottom line, and pushed too low. There are plenty of others with similar mileage available with dealers asking $11900-$12,400, and the occasional private party xB for $6500-8500

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