Detroit will never be the same

Discussion in 'Chrysler' started by xcel, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    GM’s darkest hour is fast approaching.

    [xfloat=left][/xfloat]Daniel Howes - Detroit News - Nov. 11, 2008

    Saturn Aura/Chevrolet Malibu twins – 2 of the few award winning vehicles coming out of Detroit these days.

    I hope it is not over because GM is America’s manufacturer if we like it or not :ccry: -- Ed.

    It's over, folks.

    No matter what comes of the increasingly frantic Detroit bailout talks in Washington, or General Motors Corp.'s desperate bid to keep its critical cash hoard from disappearing, or Chrysler LLC's next move to avoid bankruptcy, or Ford Motor Co.'s flimsy insistence that its predicament is not as bad, the credit crisis of '08 has ensured that Detroit as we know it will never be the same again.

    Why is that so hard to understand?

    Even if the feds pump billions into Detroit's automakers to avert a bigger economic catastrophe, the era of the Big Three as the Big Three officially died last week. It was confirmed by the mad scramble on Capitol Hill over the weekend to get "immediate" dough to Detroit, as Michigan's congressional delegation also urged in a letter Monday to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson…

    Translation: Absent a massive government infusion, GM will sink below its minimum cash levels by the end of this year. In personal terms, it'd mean you're mortgaged to the hilt, there's no more room on the home equity line, the credit cards are maxed, you can't sell the boat or the house Up North because no one's buying, your savings are dwindling, your monthly income is dropping like a stone and you can't find a second job… [rm][/rm]
  2. applemac*fit

    applemac*fit Well-Known Member

    Very interesting story. I didn't know their demise was so close; I knew it was inevitable, but not close at hand. Although I do not feel Schadenfreude (a word the author used) over their demise, where's the corporate responsibility? :mad: Their playing with people's livelihoods (their workers).

    I suppose I would be better off looking at news sources from across the pond. That's what I normally do for political insight, as the BBC et-al are not American-owned news sources.
  3. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

  4. GreenVTEC

    GreenVTEC Well-Known Member

    Why the big concern?

    GM won't go under. They will go for bankruptcy protection before letting that happen.
  5. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    Almost sounded like an article for hire. Its almost a done deal that congress will give them 100 billion or whatever other figure they ask for. The one point of irony I've read in all this the the fact that it may be hard to impossible to call Congress back from Christmas break in order to bail them out.

    GM died because.... Congress went to Nantucket.

    Well I imagine the propensity for guzzlers may have had something to do with it too. Personally, I don't see the end-of-days as the author paints. A 100 year old company is remarkable because most companies do die... eventually. If they die, someone will come in and gobble up their volt R&D and we'll get a really good EV company out of the mess.

    The UAW workers on pension are the ones who are gonna get shafted though. I live next to an old steel worker. 6 months into his retirement his pension vanished. Turned out some moronic funds manager invested it all in Enron of all places. 65 years old and he had to go job hunting. He's now working one of the local refineries.

    It's terrible but the poorest people in the US still have more than the other 5 billion people on the planet.

  6. noflash

    noflash Senior Member

    Can we just let Chrysler die?

    The big two can draw from Chrysler's American customer base and Cerebrus can choke on their own greed.

    And bailing out two is cheaper than bailing out three.

  7. Simp1e

    Simp1e Active Member

    I heard on NPR this morning that Obama had asked the Bush Administration to allow the car industry to receive bailout funds, so I am sure that even if Bush doesn't do it, Obama will try to work out something to keep Detroit from going under.
  8. greenrider

    greenrider Well-Known Member

    As I have said before, GM made the bed they must now lie in, and they're reaping what they've sewn for so long...
  9. greenrider

    greenrider Well-Known Member

    If it's not too late already by the end of January.
  10. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    I've began to wonder if there might be a political game here. Recess Congress in November, refuse to reconvene, leave Obama with GM 3 weeks deep in chapter 11.

    Who calls emergency sessions and could disgruntled lame ducks squash a call for an emergency session?

  11. Xringer

    Xringer Older Member

    Since we (non-auto workers) will be picking up the tab, maybe we should have a choice..

    1. We pump billions in a poorly managed company and let them waste even more money..
    (Another 2 or 3 years of mismanagement before golden parachutes fill the sky)?


    2. We cut the tab about 75% by paying the unemployment cost for those workers until they
    can get new jobs.?.
  12. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    If the stock really tanks, Tata Motors might pick them up. Lots of factories for pennies on the dollar. That would be a real turn-about.

  13. feyrerm

    feyrerm Active Member

    When you don't learn from the past you relive it. Ask any former steel worker in my area. 20 years ago you couldn't find a person who didn't work for the steel co. The unions priced themselves out of a job. The pensions and health care that these folks in these unions get is just unreal. No one else gets even close at a normal 9 to 5. GM pays the average line worker 76$ an hour Toyota in the us 46$ an hour. Still a nice wage for sure. During the great depression there was a fraise that rose from the 20% unemployment. "Its good work if you can get it" is a Fraze that meant if you could get a job there was no depression for you. Of course the 20% unemployment can be directly attributed to government wage and price controls which forced employers to lay off workers to meet the wages and prices set by the gov. Not unlike a union.
  14. jdhog

    jdhog Hyper Smiler

    fraze is spelt phrase dude.
  15. aca2983

    aca2983 Well-Known Member

    If "Detroit" wants to save itself, it should get the heck out of Detroit.

    Most other automakers have their HQ or design studios on the coasts. That's where new trends happen. That's where talented, highly educated, global workers want to live and start a career.

    If you were a fresh young Asian or European student with a couple of degrees out of the way, and looking for a job with a dynamic global automaker, where would you want to go? An international gateway city (LA perhaps?), with cultural attractions, every cuisine you could ever want, a diverse dynamic population, top universities, and future job prospects in many potential industries? or Detroit?

    A lot of his stuff is a little thin, but read Richard Florida.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2008
  16. SpartyBrutus

    SpartyBrutus Hypofueller

    DuPont (206 yr old) should buy GM... 50 years ago they had to give up control of GM.
  17. donee

    donee Well-Known Member

    Hi All,

    I think I am in favor of the Bankruptcy road for GM and Chrysler. This will be the only thing that will reign in the UAW. It will be the only thing that will finally and irrevocably bring light truck manufacture down to the level of those used for outdoor work, and light mass transport. It is the best chance to send Rick Wagoner off in a unpaid retirement (although at tens of millions in compensation already, he is indepedantly wealthy). And it will force a renogotiation of Pension benefits to levels more typically received by the rest of us. It seems to me that the only thing a government bailout does is maintain gold plated compensation to the line workers, and retirees that remain in the US. Bankruptcy puts all that stuff up for renogotiation, and as a result gives GM a chance at the future. The retirees are still covered by the government pension insurance - so we are paying one way or the other as private taxpayers. If they do not go with bankruptcy, we pay, and nothing gets changed, and we pay again. What is to avoid this hapening in a few years if the basics of their buisness are not changed to competitive levels? Nothing.

    So, it must be bankruptcy.
  18. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Unfortunately, the payback come at a price to the rest of us - deep recession or depression. :(
  19. w4wfm

    w4wfm Well-Known Member

    And the last question is, "When do we, the people (the US government), realize that we are at the equivalent of, "In personal terms, it'd mean you're mortgaged to the hilt, there's no more room on the home equity line, the credit cards are maxed, you can't sell the boat or the house Up North because no one's buying, your savings are dwindling, your monthly income is dropping like a stone and you can't find a second job."

    We, the people, have over $10,500,000,000 of debt right now. That is $34,000 for every individual in the US. I do not have that amount of spare change sitting around. Is it worth going deeper in debt to help out these very well to do people?


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