Brain-storming ideas

Discussion in 'Fuel Economy' started by hawkgt647, Mar 2, 2006.

  1. hawkgt647

    hawkgt647 Well-Known Member

    Idea #1:
    Looking at hybrids - they all can do auto-stop and re-start quickly because of the battery pack and large electric motor.
    So how can we accomplish this in a non-hybrid and still be able to re-start the engine without beating up the 12 volt battery and frying the starter.
    Could we use a heavy standby flywheel to have the reserve energy available to restart the ICE? And could the same flywheel drive a small generator to keep the electrical system alive during auto-stops?
    Use an electric A/C compressor?

    Idea #2:
    Design an ultra MPG small pickup, make it very aerodynamic, like this home brew: http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=870
    Seems like they could build the aero bed cover and still keep the bed functional by incorporating a roll top section in the middle. Then add all the other known efficiency tricks to it. I would be interested in a small truck that could beat the FE of everything currently made.
    1.6 or 2.0 liter turbo four designed for low rpm power. Give it a 6-speed, 5th gear for pulling loads, 6th would be a deep overdrive.
     
  2. tbaleno

    tbaleno Well-Known Member

    GMs BAS system works pretty well.

    GM is making a 2-mode hybrid system for some of their trucks.

    Looks like GM is on the same page as you.
     
  3. tigerhonaker

    tigerhonaker Platinum Contributor

    Correct and they will be coming our way, SOON. :D

    Terry
     
  4. philmcneal

    philmcneal Has it been 10 years? Wow

    but on models that everyone cannot afford ;(
     
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi HawkGT:

    ___I have seen discussion of a flywheel being made a part of the starter HW many times in the past and I wish there was one in most cars we drive today … Hybrids-benefits from the engine or battery?. Either regen or a small parasitic load to spin her up and leave her there once up to RPM. Depending on its size, you could have it do all kinds of things but as you ask more of it, the more energy you have to store, the larger the amount of energy you have to input, the lower fuel economy because of filling the flywheel with kinetic energy to being with, and the larger the flywheel has to get. In lower temps, the headlights can take a 12V out in a matter of minutes under a multiple FAS/Warmup P&G scenario or while stopped at a light w/ ICE-Off. Not dead but just down to the point that you cannot restart the car. Yes, dead I guess ;) If I could use a flywheels inertia to turn the car’s ICE over maybe 5 - 10 rev’s after a FAS, no problem but w/ the headlight’s dimming let alone the internal 12V electronics not doing well on voltages below ~ 10.5 V, we would have to see that Flywheel used as an MGSet w/ a clutching mechanism to extract the energy stored. It would get big pretty quick once you begin to try offloading the standard 12V’s loads onto it. The MGSet part (basically a BAS system) is not cheap by any means either :( I don’t know? I think the flywheel can do a lot of things we haven’t considered yet including ICE-On assist but if a 5 lb or more flywheel spinning at 10,000 RPM were to ever come apart, good god I hope you aren’t in the way … There has been turbine blading running at a touch below Mach on the very outer edge (that is where they run) in generating plants that have come apart with an imbalance of whatever type experienced on the turbine as a whole. Not only will a turbine blade slice right through the thick steel of the turbine’s outer casing, it will continue through the building, through the sidewall of the building structure, and have been found as far away as ½ mile after a destructive disassembly! There is a lot of energy stored when you start talking about spinning up mass to extremely high rotational speeds.

    ___Have you ever read up on the hydraulic hybrid’s created in partnership between both Ford and the EPA’s Dr. Gray? It was a while ago but the EPA has running Taurus Hydraulic hybrid prototypes that do in fact work … An Accumulator builds up pressure in regen and releases it for acceleration or ICE-Off mode via a 2-way pump. A small leak and you simply have a lot of oil all over the place vs. a small object being ejected from inside the ICE bay. The problem … Having worked with Emergency Diesel Generators, high pressure fluid control systems, and any number of other high pressure systems, they leak. I don’t care how much you spend on protecting seals from wear or the elements, they leak. The average consumer will not stand for a drop or two of hydraulic fluid under their car so this idea is probably not going to go anywhere either.

    ___Electricity is ultra clean, easily controlled, and stores decently enough with the right size and properly designed pack. I wish today’s hybrid components were not so expensive but they are coming down in price fast and we will hopefully have the basics for an IMA, BAS, and Start/Stop like systems built into all cars for < $1,000 in the very near future.

    ___About the Aero-Truck … There were other posts about the Aerodynamics of this P/U over at EV World. My poor little Ranger has done its all to destroy its EPA and in temps, conditions, and while towing that are not even close to being what most use their P/U’s for day in and day out. It really is about the driver first, the HW second in my experience. Not that I wouldn’t mind a full blown, full-hybrid Ranger w/ the aero equipment attached but for < $10K brand new back in 03, it did pretty well all on its own accord ;)

    ___Phil, BAS is supposedly a < $1,500 addition. When looking at it on the Saturn Vue at the Chicago Autoshow, it looks like a beefed up Alternator w/ a small pack attached is all. The Inverter/up-converter and controllers are where the $’s went because the pack on the VUE Greenline is ultra small as well. The Toyota Vitz sold in the Asian market can be purchased with a small Li-Ion pack and Start/Stop MGSet. I do not know the Start/Stop premium but it was discussed over at GreenCarCongress a few months ago IIRC?

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  6. tigerhonaker

    tigerhonaker Platinum Contributor

    Hey, When your Right, Your Right. :D

    Terry
     

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